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Old 23 Mar 2004, 03:45 (Ref:916017)   #1
Led ZeppF1
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Led ZeppF1 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Brawn Seeks Engine Clarification

Ross Brawn has asked FIA for a clarification of the engine change rules in 2004.

The move follows Renault's decision to install a new engine in Fernando Alonso's car prior to the start of Sunday's Malaysian Grand Prix.

http://www.tsn.ca/auto_racing/news_story.asp?id=77423
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Old 23 Mar 2004, 06:42 (Ref:916090)   #2
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Maybe he should be penalised 10 places in the next race at Bahrain
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Old 23 Mar 2004, 07:42 (Ref:916115)   #3
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climb should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridclimb should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Jokes aside, Ross' concern is absolutely correct; F1 has to ensure that engine chenges be not an astute ploy to trick the rules.
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Old 23 Mar 2004, 08:48 (Ref:916150)   #4
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Smokey 6 litre should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
i dont see what Renault did wrong, Alonso was at the back so they could do whatever they liked.
And Brawns analogy about Monza was odd, why would a team qualify pole with a special engine and sacrafice 10 places when they could use a normal engine and qualify 5th!
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Old 23 Mar 2004, 08:49 (Ref:916151)   #5
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Originally posted by Mr V
Maybe he should be penalised 10 places in the next race at Bahrain
Errr, may be not. According to article 86 FIA's Spare Cars and Engines Regulations, the punisment is for the related race.

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Article 86:

Only one engine may be used by each driver during all practice sessions and the race. Should it become necessary for a driver to use another engine he will drop ten places on the starting grid each time one is used. However, should an engine change be carried out after the qualifying practice session, any drivers concerned will be required to start the race from the back of the starting grid in accordance with Article 131.
After consultation with the relevant engine supplier the FIA will attach seals to each engine in order to ensure that no significant moving parts can be rebuilt or replaced.
Other than the straightforward replacement of one engine unit with another, a change will also be deemed to have taken place if any of the FIA seals are damaged or removed from the original engine after it has been used for the first time in any practice session held under Articles 118 and 119.
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Old 23 Mar 2004, 08:54 (Ref:916157)   #6
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I don't see that Renault did anything wrong, it just seems that they took the best course of action under the current rules. If you're at the back anyway you might as well swap engines (the replacement will have lower mileage on it so should therefore be more reliable).

Did BAR change the engine in Satos car? If not I expect they're regretting that now.
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Old 23 Mar 2004, 12:29 (Ref:916390)   #7
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Bleu should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridBleu should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Did BAR change the engine in Satos car? If not I expect they're regretting that now.
I think they did because the starting grid told "Penalty" on Pantano, Alonso and Sato.
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Old 23 Mar 2004, 13:37 (Ref:916482)   #8
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I think they did because the starting grid told "Penalty" on Pantano, Alonso and Sato.
The penalty was because Alonso and Sato didn't complete their qualifying laps.
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Old 23 Mar 2004, 14:00 (Ref:916504)   #9
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Originally posted by climb
Jokes aside, Ross' concern is absolutely correct; F1 has to ensure that engine chenges be not an astute ploy to trick the rules.
Although there is no harm in asking for clarification, what is he expecting to hear? That's my question. He was at the back of the pack, they should be allowed to change the engine. Period end of story. Is he looking for like a 10sec penalty on top of that too?
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Old 23 Mar 2004, 14:01 (Ref:916506)   #10
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He wants to know the rules so that he can figure out if he can use it to Ferrari's advantage in the future.
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Old 23 Mar 2004, 14:05 (Ref:916508)   #11
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Look to see the Jordans and Minardis on the front 2 rows of the grid soon as everyother team suddenly starts blowing up after 1st qualifying!
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Old 23 Mar 2004, 14:06 (Ref:916509)   #12
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krt917 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridkrt917 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Yes, I suspect that is it. Which, I suppose, is fair enough. Better to ask first rather than cause a load of controversey when (if?) Rubens or Schuey screw up qualifying.
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Old 23 Mar 2004, 14:59 (Ref:916570)   #13
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climb should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridclimb should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally posted by dcp2685
Although there is no harm in asking for clarification, what is he expecting to hear? That's my question. He was at the back of the pack, they should be allowed to change the engine. Period end of story. Is he looking for like a 10sec penalty on top of that too?
Actually Brawn carried a totally different example, which has nothing in common with Alonso's (the case of the Spaniard was only a startpoint), relates to a driver/team who places well in quals, but decides to get 5 rows back in order to exploit a race-fitted engine who overcompensates the loss on the starting grid.
The main problem is, the more rules you set, the more loopholes you find for opportunism.
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Old 23 Mar 2004, 16:38 (Ref:916690)   #14
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elspethhardie should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridelspethhardie should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I think the only thing to say about that artical is... How scary is that picture!!! I bet he's not very impressed
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Old 23 Mar 2004, 17:26 (Ref:916751)   #15
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I'm sure the rules say you go to the back of the grid if you change the engine after qualifying.

S'what Martin Brundle said anyway...
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Old 23 Mar 2004, 18:30 (Ref:916860)   #16
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Hugh Jarce should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridHugh Jarce should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridHugh Jarce should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I suppose the danger is if someone is having a poor flying lap e.g a rough 1st sector, it could be in their interestd to abort it and go to the back for an engine update.

Whether anyone would be thinking that clearly is doubtful.
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Old 24 Mar 2004, 13:09 (Ref:917840)   #17
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Originally posted by Hugh Jarce
I suppose the danger is if someone is having a poor flying lap e.g a rough 1st sector, it could be in their interestd to abort it and go to the back for an engine update.

Whether anyone would be thinking that clearly is doubtful.
I don't think its doubtful HJ, and it would appear that its not against any FIA ruling so i'm sure it's something the team principles think about the possibility of alot.

If a car is struggling in qualifying in relation to their direct opposition, then they would proberbly profit by changing engines and starting from the back. All depends of course on the circuit they are racing at. Monaco is a no, no, but Monza or Indy might be a good place to try it.

Last edited by Mr V; 24 Mar 2004 at 13:09.
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Old 24 Mar 2004, 14:51 (Ref:917996)   #18
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Kicking-back should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridKicking-back should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
The difference in power between this years engines and last isn't very much.

I doubt there would be much advantage changing engine for the race - and any slight gain would be more than negated by starting last.
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