[WEC] LMP Future Regulations (was Le Mans EVO rules - now hypercar rules)

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

My question is: Does the Class One tub allow body designs like the Valkyrie or the Toyota GR Super Sport?

The Vulcan should be pretty easy to do with the Class One chassis. The Toyota might not be able to be done perfectly, but a decent approximation should be possible. (keep in mind that the bare Class One chassis is narrower than it looks)

Perhaps the use of the Class One tub could be allowed but it should not be mandatory as it happens in GT 300 where the MC can be used or not.

Interestingly, my friend brought up that the next generation of LMP2 should use the actual GT300 MC in a similar arrangement to using the Class One tub for LMP1. To be fair, the MC Evora certainly looks like a prototype;

[EffectiveSprinkles]

Remember there is no indication that the eventual car will have to perfectly resemble a road model. It can just be 'brand identification'. So for example the TS060 would 'look like' a Toyota even though there is no actual road car model that resembles it. It will remain a prototype car.

[TF110]

True. It'd be easier to do that then make a road car to race. But with cars like the Valkyrie they're already pretty close to the race cars. I guess we'll see. I hope Aston Martin is going to enter and run something close to the Valkyrie. The Toyota car looks like it has an lmp1 chassis already and is wrapped in a more road car like body.

[Akrapovic]

Excuse my lack of knowledge on SuperGT, but did I see a headline about a manufacturer (I think Honda?) not being happy with the new chassis? Or did I imagine that?

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Excuse my lack of knowledge on SuperGT, but did I see a headline about a manufacturer (I think Honda?) not being happy with the new chassis? Or did I imagine that?

Probably not imagining it. I can't find any recent news saying such, but Honda had some issues early on with their car using the current chassis when it was new, and I'm sure "unhappy" would be an adequate description of their initial attitude.

While Honda has subsequently proven that the chassis can be used to make a competitive mid-engined car, when it was first brought about they struggled quite a bit to make it work. They still won on occasions if circumstances lined up, but they were not consistently competitive for the first couple years - based on win rate, you could say they've never been terribly competitive at all under the new rules, but the Hondas do challenge for wins and podiums a lot more than they did in 2014-15.

[Akrapovic]

If the issue is front v rear engined, then I guess that's a non-issue for the ACO as they'd just force a rear engined prototype.

However, to be honest I don't see them using this chassis. It's logically correct from what I can see, but ACO doesn't like using ideas from other organisations. It took them a long time to accept GT3, and even then they demoted it to LM Cup and don't support it as much as they could.

Good idea, but ACO likes to blaze it's own trails, rather than follow in the footsteps. Which is admirable, but not always successful.

[EffectiveSprinkles]

Some people claim the new hypercar rules are a copy of DPi though

[Akrapovic]

And of course DPi is just built off of the ACO base anyway Full circle.

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

If the issue is front v rear engined, then I guess that's a non-issue for the ACO as they'd just force a rear engined prototype.

If they force roadcar-derived styling, I actually don't think they will. But regardless the fact that Honda makes it work at all shows that it doesn't really matter - competent designers would still make it work. Besides, there are otehr design restrictions in DTM/SGT that could be giving Honda the trouble they've had.

However, to be honest I don't see them using this chassis. It's logically correct from what I can see, but ACO doesn't like using ideas from other organisations. It took them a long time to accept GT3, and even then they demoted it to LM Cup and don't support it as much as they could.

Completely agree. Love the idea, don't think they'll do it. They're more likely to unshackle GTE to not have to converge with GT3 than do something as monumentally intelligent as this.

[TF110]

Autosport has a story up about BMW joining in the hypercar talks. It also says the reports of Ford and Ferrari leaving are erroneous. That shouldn't surprise a few here. I wonder what comes of this. I think BMW wants to run a fuel cell and the article speaks to that, but it's even further off than these new rules.

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by TF110

Autosport has a story up about BMW joining in the hypercar talks. It also says the reports of Ford and Ferrari leaving are erroneous. That shouldn't surprise a few here. I wonder what comes of this. I think BMW wants to run a fuel cell and the article speaks to that, but it's even further off than these new rules.

in the Ferrari chat are speculating with a special Fxx k Evo testing in Fiorano.

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/th...iorano.584749/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Te09gHHswHY

[broadrun96]

Or more likely is just the FXX-K Evo package as is their history with the Clienti Corsa program. That's almost Dagys level car plus new regs plus testing equals they've committed to making a car. Come back when the regs are established and the dimensions of a road car are the basis of the racer. Quite frankly doubt they'll run that size. They will end up looking like a fat guy sat on the clay model, short, wide and ugly as a they can be

[TF110]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Or more likely is just the FXX-K Evo package as is their history with the Clienti Corsa program. That's almost Dagys level car plus new regs plus testing equals they've committed to making a car. Come back when the regs are established and the dimensions of a road car are the basis of the racer. Quite frankly doubt they'll run that size. They will end up looking like a fat guy sat on the clay model, short, wide and ugly as a they can be

You ever see a LaFerrari in the flesh before? I have and the car is very low and quite small. Almost makes the other Ferrari's seem like a family car. That doesn't mean that they will use it for a lmp/gtp though, I agree.

[deggis]

Remember the previous FXX test mule from 2013? It still remains a bit of a mystery.

In 2013 there was this video and then some spy pics:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od3H6Jxisfk
https://i.imgur.com/H15EEnP.jpg

In the museum at Maranello? they say it was a test mule for FXX K and for "hypothetical enclosed wheel car championships". They also claim it has a V12 engine, but the engine in that video above certainly is not a V12 (sounds like the F1 V6).
https://i.imgur.com/iQZgFw8.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/0ttYKuA.jpg

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by deggis

Remember the previous FXX test mule from 2013? It still remains a bit of a mystery.

In 2013 there was this video and then some spy pics:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od3H6Jxisfk
https://i.imgur.com/H15EEnP.jpg

In the museum at Maranello? they say it was a test mule for FXX K and for "hypothetical enclosed wheel car championships". They also claim it has a V12 engine, but the engine in that video above certainly is not a V12 (sounds like the F1 V6).
https://i.imgur.com/iQZgFw8.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/0ttYKuA.jpg

Autosprint speculated with a V8 turbo hybrid at that time as well.
http://autosprint.corrieredellosport..._il_prototipo_
The prototype was a longer Laferrari with longer wheelbase and with a trunk similar to a 458 GTE at that time.
Anyway at that time a car in the form of hypercar would not have been competitive and now with future rules is to be assumed that yes.

[GingerPixel]

That FXX K is not hanging around through that long curve at the start of the video! Call me old fashioned, but I love a bit of wild prototype based speculation.

The BMW fuel cell thing has been going around for years. I remember hearing that they wanted to come to the current generation of LMP1 with a fuel cell ages ago, probably on here!

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by TF110

You ever see a LaFerrari in the flesh before? I have and the car is very low and quite small. Almost makes the other Ferrari's seem like a family car. That doesn't mean that they will use it for a lmp/gtp though, I agree.

Yup, for pretty much an entire day with the new FXX-K that's based on with it. Next to each other it actually makes the FXX (Enzo) seem flattened, and it was close in size to the 599XX. And sounded terrible but that's 2 V12s (and F1 cars) to make it sound the worst of the day.

[Bentley03]

Daily Sportscar article...

Aston Martin Reveals All New Project ‘003’ Hypercar

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

Daily Sportscar article...

Aston Martin Reveals All New Project ‘003’ Hypercar

My favorite part of the article is this quote:

“It was always the intention for the Aston Martin Valkyrie to be a once-in-a lifetime project,” said Aston Martin Lagonda President and Group Chief Executive, Andy Palmer.

But we've gone and a second in a lifetime version, and we will be working on a 3rd in a lifetime version.

[broadrun96]

How dare you question the almighty directors of Aston Martin? Course they keep thinking Lagonda is a line of cars that won't kill their momentum, oh wait hasn't it done that before?

[hondafan37]

BMW Motorsport director Jens Marquardt says more “clarity” is needed on the FIA and ACO’s ‘Hypercar’ regulations amid tight deadlines for manufacturers looking to commit to the new top-level prototype platform.

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...hypercar-regs/

A decision on a McLaren ‘Hypercar’ program will come by early next year according to McLaren Racing CEO Zak Brown, who has continued to give high praise to the FIA and ACO’s new top class formula.

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...rly-next-year/

[GingerPixel]

There are a worrying number of people that seem to think that Company X making a hypercar (car faster than a supercar) means that they are making a hypercar (LMP1 thingy for Le Mans).

I can't possibly imagine why that could be confusing.

[EffectiveSprinkles]

Related, so many people seem to think a car for this class needs to be based on a road car. In that regard the 'hypercar' name is dreadful.

[Aysedasi]

On that, I do agree. Pure hype.....

[deggis]

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2018/1...gulations.html

Whilst more detail on the timeline and specific content of the ‘Hypercar’ regs are expected shortly, Fillon again talked of current discussions with ‘five or six’ manufacturers over the regulations and showed a new concept drawing again emphasising the road car styling cues likely to feature in the new manufacturer-led category.

Beyond that there was more detail of the work now underway on the zero-emissions project, Fillon revealing that five manufacturers are currently working with the ACO (plus an undisclosed number of equipment/ component suppliers) to define the 2024 regulatory framework.