[Rules] Future Rule Changes

[broadrun96]

I would ask if you actually watch a single qualifying round this season? It seems to me you haven't because at most every round so far teams have tried and used have succeeded at NOT running the softest tire to get in to Q3. And actually yes, teams are tire restricted, listen to team officials and the number of times they don't have a spare tire of the one they really want and use a used tire when they want fresh.

And yes, I've read every bit of your suggestions, and I use that word VERY loosely, so far in this thread. Often you rant and whine because people have misunderstood your post when it makes less than zero sense and used contains contradictions. I would recommend you actually sit, watch a qualifying round LIVE and listen to the interviews. Teams know pretty well, used to the exact position where they will qualify before the start of the round. If you think they are winging it hoping for a good result you really have not been paying attention. Also if you think taking away aero is first simple, and second effective, you REALLY have no been paying attention or know engineers at the top of their field and lawyers who can parse every single word to find the advantage. You also then CAN NOT EVER complain about lap speed decrease, taking away aero will slow the cars. What you want with decreased aero is an improved show. The purity of the rules be dammed, you can not make an argument that is not better racing with more passing is not about improving the show and entertainment.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

Everybody who makes Q3 gets an extra set of tyres. Tyre allocation is not a problem in the race. This is not applicable. You seem to be under the impression that teams are somehow starved of tyres but that's not the case. And since teams can make their own allocation they can easily adapt to the circumstances. Tyre allocation is not an issue and it seems to be the core argument you're trying to make. It falls flat, I'm afraid.

This may be the part you are not understanding in the regulations, and so makes your argument fall flat. The teams that make it to Q3 must hand back a set of tyres so have less available for the race, not more.

The tyre allocation for the weekend consists of 13 sets of dry weather tyres.

Over the course of a race weekend the teams have to hand back tyres according to a certain schedule, though they can decide which tyres to give back at the following times:
- One set after the first 40 minutes of FP1
- One set at the end of FP1
- Two sets at the end of FP2
- Two sets at the end of FP3

Drivers who make it through to Q3 must hand back the set of the softer compound tyres nominated for Q3, and start the race on the tyres with which they set their fastest time in Q2. All other drivers will be able to use the set that is saved for Q3 during the race.

[wnut]

"Brawn is wrong about F1 electric move"

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/b...56768_c_RTi1Ta

Is Brawn the right person to be leading changes to F1's rules?

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by wnut

"Brawn is wrong about F1 electric move"

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/b...56768_c_RTi1Ta

Is Brawn the right person to be leading changes to F1's rules?

I think it's a bit much to question someones entire leadership for not knowing the commercial agreements of other series.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by wnut

"Brawn is wrong about F1 electric move"

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/b...56768_c_RTi1Ta

Is Brawn the right person to be leading changes to F1's rules?

Perhaps Brawn already knew this, and his comments include the possibility of operating outside of the FIA?

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Perhaps Brawn already knew this, and his comments include the possibility of operating outside of the FIA?

Or he knew it would get a reaction from FE, which would highlight a ridiculous situation where only one series is allowed to use a new technology.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Or he knew it would get a reaction from FE, which would highlight a ridiculous situation where only one series is allowed to use a new technology.

The manufactured monopolies via very long term exclusive agreements is frustrating. It’s ironic that given FIA exists to facilitate competition has such a history of implementing such anti-competitive agreements.

Richard

[chillibowl]

Doesn't Liberty/John Malone own sizable chunk of Formula E as well?

[S griffin]

F1 does not need to go electric, we need the engine note to remain

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by S griffin

F1 does not need to go electric, we need the engine note to remain

That ship sailed with the V6 Turbo.

[S griffin]

At least we still have some noise, even if the V10s were one of the best

[Armco Bender]

If F1 goes electric I'm out...
I've tried watching Formula Scalextric but I keep self harming after a couple of laps.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Armco Bender

If F1 goes electric I'm out...
I've tried watching Formula Scalextric but I keep self harming after a couple of laps.

Better that than bothering the sheep!

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Better that than bothering the sheep!

Ah but Mike, he didn't explain how he self harms...

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Ah but Mike, he didn't explain how he self harms...

That's true!

[BSchneiderFan]

I don’t have a problem with Formula E qua an electric championship, I have a problem with the cars being sloooooow, needing (at the moment) to be changed at half-distance and racing on some cramped Mickey Mouse circuits. Apart from that, I love it...

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

Doesn't Liberty/John Malone own sizable chunk of Formula E as well?

I believe that they do. Clever strategy from Agag to tie up the rights for 25 years and typical of an governing body like the FIA with no commercial acument to agree to it. I imagine Agag will sit back and wait for Liberty to buy FE out completely as it's inevitable that it will end up as FE1 in the end, certainly over the 25 year time frame, there will be no interest from manufacturers in putting any conventional 'fuel' into an engine by then.


They aren't exactly queuing up to enter F1 now, which was surely what the 2021 regs were supposed to be about, getting new manufacturers in. If there are no new ones from the outset of the new rules, they will be none later, as they have seen how hard (and expensive) it is to catch up if you are late to the party...

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

I believe that they do. Clever strategy from Agag to tie up the rights for 25 years and typical of an governing body like the FIA with no commercial acument to agree to it. I imagine Agag will sit back and wait for Liberty to buy FE out completely as it's inevitable that it will end up as FE1 in the end, certainly over the 25 year time frame, there will be no interest from manufacturers in putting any conventional 'fuel' into an engine by then.

agreed. clever strategy indeed! if one wants to become the new BE this is how you become the new BE.


does anyone know if the 25 year monopoly only extends to open wheel cars?

i believe there is an electric GT series on the way but not sure if it has FIA backing but i assume it must.

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

They aren't exactly queuing up to enter F1 now, which was surely what the 2021 regs were supposed to be about, getting new manufacturers in. If there are no new ones from the outset of the new rules, they will be none later, as they have seen how hard (and expensive) it is to catch up if you are late to the party...

so with the new engine rules not yet agreed to, have they already crossed the point of no return?

rather, is a two year time frame already too short of a time frame for a new manu to enter by 2021?

[BSchneiderFan]

The Electric GT Championship is “approved” by the FIA.

http://www.electricgt.co

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

The Electric GT Championship is “approved” by the FIA.

http://www.electricgt.co

What is the duration of the exclusive agreement? 50, 100 or a million years?

Richard

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

I don’t have a problem with Formula E qua an electric championship, I have a problem with the cars being sloooooow, needing (at the moment) to be changed at half-distance and racing on some cramped Mickey Mouse circuits. Apart from that, I love it...

Cracking summary....

It's a good job the E-Pace series is alongside FE.

One wouldn't want them to shown up...

[EffectiveSprinkles]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

This may be the part you are not understanding in the regulations, and so makes your argument fall flat. The teams that make it to Q3 must hand back a set of tyres so have less available for the race, not more.

The point you're missing is that this set was added to the original allocation after the change was made to start on Q2 tyres instead of Q3 tyres. So everyone got an extra set of tyres. So yes the Q3 runners have to give back the Q3 set but it was added onto the existing allocation so the net result is zero for them. The non-Q3 runners gain an extra set of tyres that's never used.

Once again I would like to stress that the teams are not in any way limited by tyre allocation in terms of strategy. And even if they would be, simply adding an extra set of tyres to the allocation would solve that immediately. You're creating problems that don't exist, and even if they would they would be easily solvable without making any extra rules.

Also, I guess there's no point in discussing further since you still don't have any arguments against my original position

[EffectiveSprinkles]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

That ship sailed with the V6 Turbo.

I actually do like the sound sometimes. Because of the high revs it's quite unique for a V6T.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

The point you're missing is that this set was added to the original allocation after the change was made to start on Q2 tyres instead of Q3 tyres. So everyone got an extra set of tyres. So yes the Q3 runners have to give back the Q3 set but it was added onto the existing allocation so the net result is zero for them. The non-Q3 runners gain an extra set of tyres that's never used.

Once again I would like to stress that the teams are not in any way limited by tyre allocation in terms of strategy. And even if they would be, simply adding an extra set of tyres to the allocation would solve that immediately. You're creating problems that don't exist, and even if they would they would be easily solvable without making any extra rules.

Also, I guess there's no point in discussing further since you still don't have any arguments against my original position

How can the net result be zero, if having handed back a set they have less available?
Teams don't care about their tyre allocation compared to previous sets of rules - just their current rivals under current regulations.

I'm still not seeing any proof that removing the requirement to run Q2 tyres in the race will make any improvement.
You can stress as much as you like - but that doesn't change the fact that in this season, teams have been restricted because of a lack of available tyre compounds. This was evident in Bottas' tyre options at the British GP. If he had another set, he could have pitted onto fresh rubber and Mercedes would not have had a tactical decision to make.

The more teams have to work things out, and handle restrictions, the better it can be. Your proposal would result in more processional races, and damage the show.
Not seeing anything that suggests otherwise in your proposal.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

I actually do like the sound sometimes. Because of the high revs it's quite unique for a V6T.

It's unique, and if it was a single car/team/engine then I'd like it. I liked the Audi/Peugeot diesel for the same reason. It didn't sound "good", but I liked it sometimes because it was different. But if there was a whole grid of it, I'd hate the diesel sound.

So the V6T...well it isn't the worst sound in the world, but it's far from good. But the big problem is they're basically all the same.