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19 Jul 2006, 23:53 (Ref:1660389)
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#26 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,064
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A merger is the only way to go. Just imagine:-
Andretti-Green Newman/Haas Rahal-Letterman Forsythe Ganassi RuSPORT Penske Tracy, Andretti, Bourdais, Wheldon, Junqueira, Hornish, Wilson, Castroneves, Allmendinger, Dixon, da Matta, Franchitti, Philippe, Kanaan All in one series! 17 race calendar: 10 road/street/airport tracks, 7 ovals! What a dream! A combined series does have the potential to threaten F1 again. Especially if ex-F1 stars come to the states as they once did. Now we could have Hakkinen, Verstappen, Frentzen, Alesi + new talent not wanting to be in the harsh environment of F1. F1 would come to champcars for future stars rather than laughing at the mere suggestion of it........And just think of all the fans they'd bring! There could be Lola, Panoz & Dallara chassis with Honda or Cosworth engines..............Huge sponsorship could be attracted, even stealing a few from NASCAR!  Everyone would be a winner!  All the potential is there. All it needs is for the top guys to work together for a change.    There! I just ruined it! With all those egos it'll never happen!  What a shame. It could be so great.   
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RIP Dan Wheldon, 1978-2011. 2005 & 2011 Indy 500 champion, 2005 Indycar champion RIP Marco Simoncelli, 1987-2011. 2008 250cc champion |
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20 Jul 2006, 00:02 (Ref:1660391)
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#27 | |||
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Subscriber
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,344
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Quote:
Remember, however that from the openwheel split to about say 2001, Champcar was still a fantastic racing series and managed somehow to slump from that series to bankrupcy in 3 years. Can you really attribute all that to the IRL? But I will concede that yes, without the split things would have been a lot more easier, but who is to say a max manufacturer exodus coupled with ecconomic downturn would not have occured? |
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"Abe will be remembered as a fighter" - RIP Abe. |
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20 Jul 2006, 00:30 (Ref:1660410)
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#28 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,073
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No offense, but the "blame game" has been discussed ad naseum. It is beyond pointless at this juncture.
We are where we are. The question is: can Sisyphus move the rock of open wheel racing up the mountain once again? If both series (or even one of them) fail, what hope is there for the future with no merger? |
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"He's still a young guy and I always think, slightly morbidly, the last thing you learn is how to die and at the end of the day everybody learns every single day." - The Ever-Cheerfull Ron Dennis on Lewis Hamilton. |
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20 Jul 2006, 00:34 (Ref:1660413)
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#29 | ||
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Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 12,053
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i honestly dont even know what to say on the situation.
to me from an uotsiders view it seems the series is slowly dying , hopefully either they can prop it up to what I believe it once was or unite and become a totally awesome series |
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In Loving memory of Peter Brock I hate it when im driving in a straight line & Seb Vettel runs into me GO THE MIGHTY HAWKS !!!! |
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20 Jul 2006, 01:11 (Ref:1660429)
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#30 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,147
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We are where we are.
What, John, are you Zen?  Absolutely correct, though - at this point, looking back for the purpose of affixing blame is pointless. |
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... Since all men live in darkness, who believes something is not a test of whether it is true or false. I have spent years trying to get people to ask simple questions: What is the evidence, and what does it mean? -Bill James |
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20 Jul 2006, 09:59 (Ref:1660645)
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#31 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,073
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paul-collins, I wish perhaps I were Zen Buddhist - then I wouldn't get so darned fired-up about things!
Let's just say that as I near 50, I finally have enough perspective to understand that at times it is more important to set things right and be done with it rather than affix blame. As has been noted, how we got here really is not nearly as important as recognizing where we are, identifying and analyzing the alternatives and then carrying on from there. More discussion where blame is heaped on one person or another is just pointless. Now, obviously I am not a "decision-maker" in all of this so anything I say or think (hopefully, I will think before saying!) is just speculation. I would be very curious to hear from Team Owner at this juncture just to get a feel for what his sense of the matter is. |
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"He's still a young guy and I always think, slightly morbidly, the last thing you learn is how to die and at the end of the day everybody learns every single day." - The Ever-Cheerfull Ron Dennis on Lewis Hamilton. |
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20 Jul 2006, 10:10 (Ref:1660652)
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#32 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,382
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I really do think they have to merge..
and Tony George will need to swallow his pride.. Two seperate series is not sustainable. |
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... without motorsport, what is sport? |
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20 Jul 2006, 11:13 (Ref:1660687)
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#33 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,366
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I agree, 2 big open wheel series isnt sustainable, not just in the US but anywhere in the world. Even here in Europe it really isnt doable, the closest thing to F1 is GP2 but that really isnt a rival series.
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Sportscar Racing fans of the world Unite! |
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20 Jul 2006, 11:22 (Ref:1660691)
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#34 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,073
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GP2 should be viewed as a ladder or feeder series for F1.
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"He's still a young guy and I always think, slightly morbidly, the last thing you learn is how to die and at the end of the day everybody learns every single day." - The Ever-Cheerfull Ron Dennis on Lewis Hamilton. |
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20 Jul 2006, 11:44 (Ref:1660708)
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#35 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,366
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It should be yes but it is in fact competing with F1 to a extent, a lot of people go to F1 race weekends now as much for the GP2 as for F1, why? Because there is close exciting racing and lots of overtaking, dont be suprised if in a couple of years the TV viewing figures become close. In Europe anyway. Another series in competition with F1 although the series organisers deny this is A1 GP, ok it is a spec series but the championship is still going for the same audiance that Formula One is. The main reason why A1 will survive though is the series has big financial backing and is run mostly in the off season.
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Sportscar Racing fans of the world Unite! |
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20 Jul 2006, 12:43 (Ref:1660754)
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#36 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,263
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Quote:
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The thrill from west hill |
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20 Jul 2006, 16:36 (Ref:1660896)
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#37 | |
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20KPINAL
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 29,853
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Hilarity prevails, obviously...
Nah, don't agree that GP2 is competing with F1. Most people probably like both I guess. GP2 has the better racing, but it isn't really competing. It is, as John says, a feeder series and people are more fascinated at the young talent coming through. "Who'll be the next F1 champion?" etc... Markers for the future. Therefore, it is not hard for a series like that to survive. If it were in competition with F1, it would be destroyed regardless of entertainment values in each series. A quite different situation to Champcar and IRL competing with each other, which has other, more political reasons, behind it. |
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20 Jul 2006, 20:13 (Ref:1661031)
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#38 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,040
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Quote:
He's done it before, with the World Touring Car Championship and then the World Sportscar Championship. |
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"The Great Race" 22 November 1960 - 21 July 1999 |
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21 Jul 2006, 09:04 (Ref:1661324)
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#39 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,366
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Yes but the WTCC is once again becoming a big series with big budget factory teams and top international drivers like Zanardi, Dirk Muller, Jorg Muller, Andy Priaulx etc and is run by a differnt organisation to FOM, the same applies for GP2. The FIA SCC is totally differnt, the series had virtually no promotion and was FIA governed plus the fact it was only open to the LMP class machines. The new LMS which has effectivly replaced the FIA SCC (and is run by the ACO like the ALMS and JLMC) is booming.
Bernie has pubically come out in the open and heavily praised GP2 for its sucess and is one of the main reasons that GP2 may well be the official feeder series for F1 in a couple of years. At the moment it isnt. |
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Sportscar Racing fans of the world Unite! |
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21 Jul 2006, 09:25 (Ref:1661336)
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#40 | |||
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Racer
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 370
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Quote:
anyway What about A1GP? How many drivers did A1GP least/this year, and have also driven/tested for F1 this year... Speed and Jani are the only two that spring to mind but I know there where more. Maybe A1 would make a good feeder series for F1... I have started watching CHAMP, IRL & NASCAR this year for the first time... Champcar isn't bad, NASCAR is fairly entertaining... but IRL is boring as hell, don't get me wrong - I can see the challenge but as something to watch on TV there is no event or spectacle.... however much of an anti-climax an F1 race is, at least they look like something big is going down. As a casual viewer to IRL my impression is that not many cars start, a few crash, and there aren't many finishers, the only interesting overtaking goes on in the last two corners, and there doesn't seem to be any kind of atmosphere. Out of F1, A1, CCWS, IRL, NASCAR, GP2 and WTCC. My preference for viewing would be F1, WTCC, A1, NASCAR, GP2, CCWS, IRL, in that order (GP2 is only higher up than Champ because I've met 2 GP2 drivers!) |
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21 Jul 2006, 12:46 (Ref:1661471)
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#41 | |||
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Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,965
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21 Jul 2006, 13:44 (Ref:1661530)
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#42 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 13,000
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Even without the typo, that phrase would've been open to misinterpretation....
Interesting to have a casual viewer's interpretation of what is wrong with the IRL, and that is pretty mch my impression, although the action at the front is pretty good involving some extremely gifted drivers. Trouble is, I can't help but long for Hornish, Wheldon et al to be racing alongside AJ, Seb, Wilson and co in a unified series. |
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21 Jul 2006, 17:56 (Ref:1661669)
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#43 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 396
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Back to the topic at hand -- The IRL can't lose any more cars -- And it always seems easier to lose teams during the off season than to get new ones -- Can they run a series if they only have 15 cars - I dunno -- I think there's at least a reasonable chance the IRL may not see 2007 without a merger.
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21 Jul 2006, 19:21 (Ref:1661703)
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#44 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 803
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Whats all the Fuss about! All you have to do is give the public what they want!
You don't have to have an agreement to have a merge: if one lifeboat sinks the strong will git on the one that floats. A word about the "blame game" (sounds like failed politics?) you can't fix something if don't pinpoint the cause. |
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"A gentelman is guilty of every crime that does not require courage" Oscar Wilde. |
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21 Jul 2006, 20:43 (Ref:1661737)
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#45 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,885
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Quote:
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Wolverines! |
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21 Jul 2006, 22:26 (Ref:1661812)
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#46 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,073
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I agree that the "cause" should be identified and fixed/avoided. However, the continuous recriminations and finger-pointing that go on in the various fora regarding the major players is not at all helpful.
CART was (and I do mean WAS) a good series, but the owners got greedy/stupid/pompous. They saw manufacturers chomping to get a piece of the action and the owners fell for the siren song of the Loreleis (ie: Honda, Toyota and Chevy). As we all know, manufacturers have the attention span of a gnat once they have achieved their marketing goals and the commitment of a rabbit in heat. Once Pandora's box was opened, all manner of bad things happened in a rather lovely cascade effect. It is like an airplane crash: there is never one thing that causes the crash. There are usually a number of things that individually would not have meant much but when all occuring together cause terminal mayhem. Such as it is here. The constant postings of how all of the open wheel world's ills can be pinned on one person in essence are a case of failing to see the forest for the trees. If open wheel ever gets their stuff together, there is a long list of things that were done pre and post split that should not be repeated. On a further note, failure of one series does not guarantee success for the other. The "sporting public" in America (except for those few of us on forums and such) have reacted pretty much with a shrug to the best efforts of both series to revitalize interest. So far it has been a lot of sound and fury, signifying nothing... Last edited by JohnSSC; 21 Jul 2006 at 22:29. |
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"He's still a young guy and I always think, slightly morbidly, the last thing you learn is how to die and at the end of the day everybody learns every single day." - The Ever-Cheerfull Ron Dennis on Lewis Hamilton. |
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21 Jul 2006, 22:59 (Ref:1661824)
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#47 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 803
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A word about overtaking: You see a lot more overtaking in races that have poorer quality drivers and/or cars that don't match up well.
Equality (quality) makes passing very,very difficult....If you want to see passing keep your eyes on the back of the pack or go to the fair grounds on Saturday night. |
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"A gentelman is guilty of every crime that does not require courage" Oscar Wilde. |
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21 Jul 2006, 23:05 (Ref:1661826)
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#48 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 803
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Quote:
I agree, but most of the owners are now in the IRL...That explanes a lot!
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"A gentelman is guilty of every crime that does not require courage" Oscar Wilde. |
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22 Jul 2006, 08:43 (Ref:1662012)
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#49 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,040
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Quote:
Bernie was publically supportive of both those series initially when they were run by other organisations (eg...the 1987 WTCC was to be organised by the Strathmore Group of New Zealand), but when they started to threaten F1's position, he stepped in through the FIA. The GP2 series becoming the official feeder series to F1 would just make that scenario easier, as the series would fall under direct FIA supervision. |
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__________________
"The Great Race" 22 November 1960 - 21 July 1999 |
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23 Jul 2006, 15:11 (Ref:1662771)
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#50 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,215
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I'll start anotherthread on this, but the Indy Star reported this morning that D&R does not have the funds to race at Michigan next weekend. Sarah Fisher was going to drive the car, but since she has not been in an Indy Car for three years, she was going to be required to take a refersher test, and there is no time to do it.
If Marty Roth doesn't make the Michigan grid, they will have 17 cars next week. Also, given Panther's tight $$$ situation, despite Vitor Meira's excellent performances of late, this spells serious trouble for the Series... |
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Finally... One American Open Wheel Series! |
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