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Old 23 Aug 2021, 22:21 (Ref:4070055)   #1
Healey3000
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1982 Tourist Trophy

Hi all,

I am looking for any details I can find on the 1982 Tourist Trophy from Silverstone.

I understand it was run to Grp A regs as a round of the ETCC. The first year for Grp A.

There are three BMW 323s on the entry list, 2 UK entered cars and 1 German entered car. I can't see photos in the usual sources (Old racing sportscars)

I'm assuming these are E30s, but its very early in the new rules for the E30.

I'd love to see if these are very early E30s or whether they were Grp A E21s, in which case we might have to put them into the unusual Grp A cars thread (given most were Grp 2 cars).

Does anyone have any old photos or details, or perhaps remember the event or was even involved? TWR won it of course in a Jaguar and there was a host of BMW 5 series, but I'm particularly interested in the 323 and would love to see any photos.

Many thanks

Tim
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Old 24 Aug 2021, 06:56 (Ref:4070082)   #2
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Originally Posted by Healey3000 View Post
Hi all,

I am looking for any details I can find on the 1982 Tourist Trophy from Silverstone.

I understand it was run to Grp A regs as a round of the ETCC. The first year for Grp A.

There are three BMW 323s on the entry list, 2 UK entered cars and 1 German entered car. I can't see photos in the usual sources (Old racing sportscars)

I'm assuming these are E30s, but its very early in the new rules for the E30.

I'd love to see if these are very early E30s or whether they were Grp A E21s, in which case we might have to put them into the unusual Grp A cars thread (given most were Grp 2 cars).

Does anyone have any old photos or details, or perhaps remember the event or was even involved? TWR won it of course in a Jaguar and there was a host of BMW 5 series, but I'm particularly interested in the 323 and would love to see any photos.

Many thanks

Tim
Hi Tim, welcome to tentenths.
I went to the 1982 Tourist Trophy and have just looked at the 8 photo's that I have thought (just) good enough to save. I am sure that the event was run to Group A regulations plus a separate class for Group N cars too. Unfortunately none of my pictures show any 323 BMW's.
I would have thought I attended the Donington 500 ETC meeting that year too, but don't have any photo's saved from that event.
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Old 24 Aug 2021, 11:18 (Ref:4070105)   #3
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Thanks Viva!

That is helpful - a Group N class could potentially have accommodated a 323. The results note them as a Div 2 car which I think would have been a Grp A under 2500cc car although I guess there might have been some flex given the very early position with the Grp A introduction.

Appreciate you taking the time to look out the photos.

There is no details on who ran the two UK entries, although the drivers are listed as:

#45
Andrew Jeffreys
Hamish Irvine
John Clark

#46
Adam Macmillan
Michael Lavers
Colin Davids

From the RSC results list they finished 20th and 21st respectively
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Old 24 Aug 2021, 11:35 (Ref:4070111)   #4
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Thanks Viva!

That is helpful - a Group N class could potentially have accommodated a 323. The results note them as a Div 2 car which I think would have been a Grp A under 2500cc car although I guess there might have been some flex given the very early position with the Grp A introduction.

Appreciate you taking the time to look out the photos.

There is no details on who ran the two UK entries, although the drivers are listed as:

#45
Andrew Jeffreys
Hamish Irvine
John Clark

#46
Adam Macmillan
Michael Lavers
Colin Davids

From the RSC results list they finished 20th and 21st respectively
I'd guess that these two 323's were in the Group N class as I am sure that I recognise some of the drivers names from racing Production Saloons. The winning Group N Car was Gerry Marshall's Capri (co-driven by rally driver Roger Clark).
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Old 24 Aug 2021, 11:38 (Ref:4070112)   #5
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Thanks Viva
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Old 24 Aug 2021, 12:06 (Ref:4070117)   #6
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1982 was the last season that the British Saloon Car Championship was run to Group 1B regulations, while the European Touring Car Championship adopted the new Group A regulations.

According to the touringcarracing.net website, just three cars competed in the Group N class, the Marshall, Clark and Paul Taft Capri, 23rd overall and first in class, Tony Lanfranchi and John Cleland in an Opel Monza, 24th overall and second in class while David Yates and Roger Payne in a Capri which was unclassified in spite of completing the same number of laps as the Monza. I would suspect these were Production Saloons as I don't think there was a Group N championship in the UK until later in the eighties.

This means that the three BMW 323s would have been built to Group A regs although according to the fastest laps printed in touringcarracing.net they were some way off the pace of the class winning Alfa Romeo GTV6. One of the drivers in the number 46 car, Colin Davids, went on to run his own team in the early years of the Super Touring BTCC, so may have had something to do with building and preparing the BMWs.
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Old 24 Aug 2021, 13:12 (Ref:4070125)   #7
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According to touringcarracing.net Davids and McMillan also took part in the Donington 500 km race in May in their BMW 323i, finishing eleventh overall, fifth in class and first British finishers.

I am fairly sure I remember an article in Autosport regarding Davids building at least one BMW 323i to be used in the ETCC, although they only appear to have raced in the British rounds. Unfortunately still doesn't answer if it was an E21 or an E30 ! But would the E30 have been homologated by 1982 ?
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Old 24 Aug 2021, 19:26 (Ref:4070207)   #8
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I have the race programme, which I will attempt to exhume tomorrow!

I also think I have a some photographs from the race (they are not dated). I have one of a BMW 3-Series, the first shape car. It is a German or Austrian entered car, race #50 & driven by Konig-Weltrowski.

Is it possible the UK-entered cars were from the BMW Challenge, or was that another event? Hopefully the programme will reveal all!
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Old 24 Aug 2021, 19:49 (Ref:4070210)   #9
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I wondered if they could have come from the old County Championship which used BMW 323s and was organised,I think, by TWR.

I came across a report of the 1983 Willhire 24 Hours in 'Motorsport' (July 1983) and in the first paragraph it mentions that Colin Davids Racing ran a BMW 323i although whether that was one of the 1982 Group A cars isn't mentioned.

Lindner Rennsport ran a very quick BMW 323i for Joachim Winkelhock and Winfried Vogt in the ETCC, which was able to take on the previously dominant Alfa Romeo GTV6s. The capacity of the Lindner Rennsport car was 2330 cc while the 'British' BMWs were 2291 cc. I'm not sure if this signifies that the Lindner Rennsport car was an E30 while the British cars were E21s ?
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Old 24 Aug 2021, 20:03 (Ref:4070212)   #10
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Yes, sorry, BMW County Championship was the correct name.

My progs are in too dark a place to go & look now, but I will do a search tomorrow.
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Old 24 Aug 2021, 22:33 (Ref:4070237)   #11
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Thanks chaps and your thoughts are exactly aligned to mine. I am relatively confident they are E21s based on the displacement and very early date as the E30 was going through homologation at that point whilst the E21 had already been Grp A approved (albeit largely it's Grp2 spec with a different fuel tank, centre lock wheels as an option to the 4 stud, no arches and narrower wheels).

I'd also wondered if they would have been converted County Championship cars.

Useful reference to the Wilhire I'll see whether there are any snaps of the 1983 race online.

Really appreciate your inputs and would welcome copies of any programmes or photos you might have in due course.
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Old 24 Aug 2021, 22:55 (Ref:4070238)   #12
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Originally Posted by GCCheddaris View Post
I wondered if they could have come from the old County Championship which used BMW 323s and was organised,I think, by TWR.

I came across a report of the 1983 Willhire 24 Hours in 'Motorsport' (July 1983) and in the first paragraph it mentions that Colin Davids Racing ran a BMW 323i although whether that was one of the 1982 Group A cars isn't mentioned.

Lindner Rennsport ran a very quick BMW 323i for Joachim Winkelhock and Winfried Vogt in the ETCC, which was able to take on the previously dominant Alfa Romeo GTV6s. The capacity of the Lindner Rennsport car was 2330 cc while the 'British' BMWs were 2291 cc. I'm not sure if this signifies that the Lindner Rennsport car was an E30 while the British cars were E21s ?

I also understand that John Clark ran an ex County Championship 323 in the 82 Willhire, finishing 2nd on the road with Gerry Marshall and some of the others named above but they were disqualified as the car was not truly a production car. Incidentally the first placed car was also Dsq so the 3rd placed car won!
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Old 25 Aug 2021, 06:45 (Ref:4070259)   #13
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Originally Posted by GCCheddaris View Post
I wondered if they could have come from the old County Championship which used BMW 323s and was organised,I think, by TWR.

I came across a report of the 1983 Willhire 24 Hours in 'Motorsport' (July 1983) and in the first paragraph it mentions that Colin Davids Racing ran a BMW 323i although whether that was one of the 1982 Group A cars isn't mentioned.

Lindner Rennsport ran a very quick BMW 323i for Joachim Winkelhock and Winfried Vogt in the ETCC, which was able to take on the previously dominant Alfa Romeo GTV6s. The capacity of the Lindner Rennsport car was 2330 cc while the 'British' BMWs were 2291 cc. I'm not sure if this signifies that the Lindner Rennsport car was an E30 while the British cars were E21s ?
Unfortunately I only have pictures from the '81, '82 & '86 Willhires so can't help here. I doubt in the Colin Davids 323 was one of the 1982 Group A cars as the Willhire was for Production Saloons and converting a Group A car 'back' to that specification would require a lot of work.
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Old 25 Aug 2021, 07:16 (Ref:4070263)   #14
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Unfortunately I only have pictures from the '81, '82 & '86 Willhires so can't help here. I doubt in the Colin Davids 323 was one of the 1982 Group A cars as the Willhire was for Production Saloons and converting a Group A car 'back' to that specification would require a lot of work.
That is true Viv, but I wonder how close to genuine Group A cars they were. While the Lindner Rennsport 323i was bang on the pace of the class leading Alfa GTV6s, the British entered 323is were 5-6 seconds a lap off the pace at both Donington and Silverstone, only just quicker than the Group N/Prodsaloons that ran in the TT. This possibly also suggests that they were the mildly modified cars from the County Championship.
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Old 25 Aug 2021, 07:39 (Ref:4070266)   #15
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1982 TT programme centre pages are below, with some on the day changes but I do not think it is very helpfull.


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Old 25 Aug 2021, 08:27 (Ref:4070272)   #16
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I have now found my programme. Firstly, I can discount the photo I mentioned as the race number does not tally - it must be from 1983.

The pre-race blurb does not give away much as to car provenance but I think now they are probably not BMW County Challenge cars.

My programme is filled in with grid, qualifying times & race results etc, but I always have a problem trying to put pictures up on here. If anyone want to PM me with an email address I will gladly send it over.
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Old 25 Aug 2021, 09:41 (Ref:4070287)   #17
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Thank you John. I will do just that.

With reference to the Willhire cross over. I agree the '83 entry from Davids is not going to be a Grp A car since it was a ProdSaloon event, but John Clark did run a 323 there in '82 and I understand was disqualified from 2nd position as the car was post race found to not be a ProdSaloon (I understand the winning car was also dsq for the same reason). He shared that car with Gerry Marshall. @Viva - if you do have photos of that car from the 82 Willhire I would be interested to see them as I wonder if that was the car that Clark raced in the TT in 82. The 323 County cars sat in spec somewhere between a Grp N car and a Grp A/2 car (as they predated GrpA).
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Old 25 Aug 2021, 10:00 (Ref:4070290)   #18
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Of the three BMW cars at Silverstone, both British-entered cars were faster than the German entry. Circuit knowledge may have helped but...

#46 Adam Macmillan/Michael Lavers/Colin Davids 1m 51.17
#45 Andrew Jeffrey/John Clark 1m 52.50
#44 Lothar von Stein/Hans Schnock/Willy Krumbach 1m 55.41

I will scan & send all that is relevant from the programme.
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Old 25 Aug 2021, 10:06 (Ref:4070291)   #19
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Thank you John. I will do just that.

With reference to the Willhire cross over. I agree the '83 entry from Davids is not going to be a Grp A car since it was a ProdSaloon event, but John Clark did run a 323 there in '82 and I understand was disqualified from 2nd position as the car was post race found to not be a ProdSaloon (I understand the winning car was also dsq for the same reason). He shared that car with Gerry Marshall. @Viva - if you do have photos of that car from the 82 Willhire I would be interested to see them as I wonder if that was the car that Clark raced in the TT in 82. The 323 County cars sat in spec somewhere between a Grp N car and a Grp A/2 car (as they predated GrpA).
And if you look at their lap times on touringcarracing.net they actually sit between the full blown Group A cars and the Group N/slick shod Production Saloons in the TT. This is why I think it is a distinct possibility that they are ex County Championship cars.

The Colin Davids Racing car was mentioned in the Motorsport report because it had missed the start due to a defective gearbox, therefore probably didn't feature in the results or possibly didn't even start.
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Old 25 Aug 2021, 11:08 (Ref:4070299)   #20
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Thank you John. I will do just that.

With reference to the Willhire cross over. I agree the '83 entry from Davids is not going to be a Grp A car since it was a ProdSaloon event, but John Clark did run a 323 there in '82 and I understand was disqualified from 2nd position as the car was post race found to not be a ProdSaloon (I understand the winning car was also dsq for the same reason). He shared that car with Gerry Marshall. @Viva - if you do have photos of that car from the 82 Willhire I would be interested to see them as I wonder if that was the car that Clark raced in the TT in 82. The 323 County cars sat in spec somewhere between a Grp N car and a Grp A/2 car (as they predated GrpA).
Sorry, I've just looked in my '1982 Willhire' photo's folder and find it to be empty! I must have initially thought the 1981 pictures were from that event by mistake and created the folder in error! (I must admit that I didn't remember visiting in consecutive years but put that down to advancing years/declining memory...)
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Old 26 Aug 2021, 20:53 (Ref:4070551)   #21
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Thank you Viva - I appreciate the time in looking.

The more I reflect on it the more I suspect you are right that these were ex. County Championship cars. There must have been a few around in 81/82 after the series stopped.

It doesn't definitively help answer my mystery in some ways, but I'll keep researching that one! If anyone has recollections of an E21 323 racing during the 80s and very early 90s do let me know.
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Old 26 Aug 2021, 22:04 (Ref:4070564)   #22
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A quick read through Autosport's race report doesn't help much either.

For qualifying, it just refers to "splitting the VW and Metros were a pair of British BMW 323is, while the leading Group N, or production saloon, was next up",

...and in the race itself, just a single mention that "the small class lead was held by the Ravensbridge Scirocco, running easily with the 2.3 litre BMWs of Jeffrey and Lavers"
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Old 29 Aug 2021, 00:21 (Ref:4070834)   #23
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The E30 wasn't released for sale in the UK until sometime later in 1983 or maybe 84 Iirc?

The TT cars mentioned here were E21's. If they were Gr.A spec perhaps they were bought or leased from Europe?

The Linder car GCCheddaris referred to was a red E30 DPM (DTM) car that competed in 1984. In Vogt's hands It did give the GTV6's alot of trouble in the ocassional ETC rounds it was entered in such as Nurburgring.

I do recall a 323i E21 in the Uniroyal series in 1982 possibly entered by Colin Davids and then there was one in '84/'85 I think driven by John Cotton who then went on to campaign a Golf.
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Old 13 Sep 2021, 20:54 (Ref:4073715)   #24
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Thanks Chunterer, thats useful.

I'd be interested to know more about the Davids car and John Cotton's.

Its definitely an E21 we are looking for. As you rightly say by late 83 there were a few E30's appearing in ETCC, but they really started to hit the grids in 84.

Its the introduction of the Grp A rules and the legacy E21's before the E30's that is interesting.
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