[DTM] Why there is no good solution for DTM's dilemma

[DS"]

I don't understand why Berger doesn't try to cooperate with Ratel. Yes, Berger has royally angered ADAC and perhaps SRO by extension. But from what I understand, Berger and Ratel don't have any personal problems. So why don't they band together to revive the 2010-11 GT1 category? GT3 is the perfect base for it, just remove driving aids, BoP and so on and let the very best teams and drivers of GT racing duke it out.

Although such a cooperation wouldn't necessarily mean the survival of DTM. The series might as well merge with the GT World Challenge Europe.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by DS"

So why don't they band together to revive the 2010-11 GT1 category? GT3 is the perfect base for it, just remove driving aids, BoP and so on and let the very best teams and drivers of GT racing duke it out.

You can't have GT3 without BoP unless you want to have a FIA GT 1998 like spending war. The performance differences between the cars would mean that one or two models would completely dominate and that the other manufacturers would either have to spend like crazy to make up the gap or fall by the wayside, though I guess no amount of money that can make a boat like the Bentley competitive against a mid-engined supercar like the McLaren.

[NaBUru38]

Hopefully it works, but I'm afraid the project is very risky.

[S griffin]

From what I saw at the Lausitsz ring there isn’t much wrong with the current racing, but 16 on the grid is not a good sign

[Cinghio44]

These DTM cars are just fantastic! The races again intriguing and I think the winning move was to reduce by a 20-30% the aerodynamics of these cars two years ago.

Anyway such a shame that the actual formula of DTM cars will not go on in 2021!

A Super GT3 formula or whatever is called is the only way to make a championship in 2021 and seems not so bad.

The main problem why DTM collapsed is that manufacturers don't want to spend money in motorsport anymore unless it something useful for a marketing purpose or implement something you can develop for the road cars. In this modern view DTM isn't allineate, and so was WTCC which also collapsed last year...

[champcarman]

Originally Posted by S griffin

From what I saw at the Lausitsz ring there isn’t much wrong with the current racing, but 16 on the grid is not a good sign

Absolutely the racing was great at the Lausitzring and I will be extremely disappointed to de the demise of this series. Attended the Zolder Round last year and loved it. Pity the manufacturers are pulling out but I would love to see a simpler , cheaper version of the current concept. Perhaps something like the Aussie Supercars but on steroids.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by champcarman

Absolutely the racing was great at the Lausitzring and I will be extremely disappointed to de the demise of this series. Attended the Zolder Round last year and loved it. Pity the manufacturers are pulling out but I would love to see a simpler , cheaper version of the current concept. Perhaps something like the Aussie Supercars but on steroids.

Watching trackside the current DTM cars are incredible - the speed, the noise (although the previous engines were even better) - just awesome. Watching them around the GP loop at Brands Hatch was a real eye opener - the lap times just blew the GT3 times away, the cars are so much quicker. It's a real shame to lose the current generation of cars - GT3+ won't be as spectacular for sure.

[Matt K]

DTM's been great when it comes to spectacular cars, speeds and things like that. I've never liked adding DRS, Push to Pass and such things though. Actually, P2P could stay but why having both DRS and P2P??

Nevertheless, these cars will soon be a history and probably just a schmalzy memory in a few year's time when motorsport is dominated by silly e-mobility and V8 engines' roar will be just a romantic thing of the past.

Nevermind, the idea of GT Plus is still good but there is a major problem - Audi is all for it but BMW is not. The thing is, BMW wouldn't like to race their old M6 and M4 is scheduled for 2022 meaning that for next year they have no car. In such circumstances, it seems unlikely for DTM to keep going next year unless some other manufacturers (Porsche, Mercedes, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Bentley, Aston etc) are attracted to the GT Plus idea.

[tux]

GT3+ all but confirmed for next year. I really really hope SRO don’t follow DTM down this path of “push to pass” “beefed up aero” GT3 cars

Means the series is saved, Berger saves his job but we lose BMW for 2021 as they see no point racing the M6 GT3.

[Matt K]

We lose BMW almost for sure. So Audi's "back" but BMW is out and we're back to square one sort of.

[hondafan37]

How do you know that BMW is out for 2021? Maybe they could use the new M4 in DTM 2021 and sell it to customers in 2022.
The new M4 GT3 is already in development and could be ready for next year, GT3-plus could enable it in its rules and there will also be BOP.

[Bcarr6]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

How do you know that BMW is out for 2021? Maybe they could use the new M4 in DTM 2021 and sell it to customers in 2022.
The new M4 GT3 is already in development and could be ready for next year, GT3-plus could enable it in its rules and there will also be BOP.

BMW already said they wont do that

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by Bcarr6

BMW already said they wont do that

Could you copy the link for that?

[tux]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

Could you copy the link for that?

https://www.motorsport.com/dtm/news/...aign=widget-22

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by tux

https://www.motorsport.com/dtm/news/...aign=widget-22

Thank you

[S griffin]

And Berger himself has said it's unlikely they will continue

https://www.autosport.com/dtm/news/1...nder-gt3-rules

[Matt K]

Seems like a pause for DTM for 2021 (at least pause, could mean cancellation as well).

[S griffin]

Unless they can get enough makes, we could see a pause in proceedings

[Go_For_Pole]

Why just a pause? A lot of companies have cars that can be easily adapted, barrier to entry is very low. If that doesn't attract entries, then what will?

[Matt K]

Ask Herr Berger, now it seems the talk is mainly about BMW and Audi but hopefully some other brands could be attracted. Potentially HTP or Zakspeed with Merc, maybe R Motorsport with Aston or Bernhard team with Porsche. On paper there are a lot of options but how does it look like in reality?

[2 litre Touring Car Star]

German motorsport has to understand that Touring car racing isn't meant to be 4th division Formula 1.

[GusGasfuss]

At first, the organisator ITR is consisting of BMW and Audi actually, so they are the first partys to ask for entries.


Second, as long as they see DTM as the second best to Formula One, they never could adapt such format like BTCC.

Not because of bad racing, in the moment they see it as a low-cost formula.


I would suggest to run with NGTC-regs, as this looks like only solution for touring car sport within possible budgets.

Even WTCR-regs get to high nowadays (and maybe too much development).


I love BTCC, and would be glad, that DTM adapts it. Maybe we could sometimes interchange drivers/cars or do some kind of "country-match"...

[S griffin]

Problem is DTM has always cars that are a bit more spectacular performance wise. So they probably wouldn’t go down the NGTC route. Would be nice, but it’s unlikely, however intriguing it sounds.

It’s just a shame other series haven’t looked into NGTC, although I think the Scandinavian were thinking of adopting it or something similar?

[helgi]

Originally Posted by GusGasfuss

Second, as long as they see DTM as the second best to Formula One, they never could adapt such format like BTCC.

Not because of bad racing, in the moment they see it as a low-cost formula.

With the same rules GT500 is a way more attractive for me. Japanese explained it: DTM is all about advertising, while Super GT is about R&D. Japanese managed to adopt Class 1 alpha (less strict) and are still alive. Does it mean that financial climate in Asia is better? Or do they have better fan base? Or, maybe, they do it right sticking to sports matters rather then trying to be "Super Exclusive Premium and so on" mimicking F1 which is not in good shape either?

Originally Posted by GusGasfuss

Even WTCR-regs get to high nowadays (and maybe too much development).

NGTC is better than TCR for sure. I wonder if there's any data about spendings in WTCR and BTCC. I won't be surprised if "cost effective" racing is more expensive. And I would be amazed if Berger and ITR adopt NGTC - it's not "Premium" enough for marketing departments.

[NaBUru38]

Germany have the ADAC TCR and fans don't care about it. They demand high performance.


A future DTM must have something extra that the ADAC GT Masters and Nürburgring Langstrecken-Serie doesn't have. Factory drivers in each car is an example.