[Race] US Grand Prix

[Taxi645]

Originally Posted by RWill2073

Here's an idea: throw a fresh coat of green paint on the asphalt off the designated track.

Here's another idea; do as you say (a strip of paint outside the kerbs) just make the paint an appropriate amount slippier than the asphalt.

Advantages:

1 low cost to install (can easily be applied to "modern" tracks with asphalt run-offs.
2 low cost to maintain (does not require work install en de-install for bike races like sausages)
3 no upright edges that could hurt bikers.
4 tracks edge is more cleanly defined.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Grass could be a safety issue as the car could spin, which some have already pointed out.

I thought of traffic cones outlining the boundaries but someone mentioned Polystyrene, or in American, Styrofoam blocks. They could look like SAFER barrier but without the consequences, or less drastic some form proximity detection, that reports back to race control.

But if grass is such a danger, why are new tracks being built with it? Why is it super duper dangerous for one track, but just fine for another? And these are literally brand new tracks, not just updating old ones.

[VIVA GT]

This is an interesting discussion as have been similar discussions about the same thing throughout the past few years.
I think that this whole subject shows a fundamental problem with the life of today, as opposed to the life of yesterday.
In times gone by there was always used a thing called 'common sense', everyone knew & understood the simple rules (of life, not just motorsport), and what those rules were aiming to achieve. Nowadays everything has to be closely defined, with more & more complicated rules & regulations because the amount of common sense used by the majority of people is significantly lower!
(This is not aimed at any of the individual posters on here, but really a comment from me about the general decline of standards in life).
With regard to the suggestion of an automatic loss of power being applied to anyone who does go outside track limits, although I do understand the point of it I think that is not sensible for a number of reasons. It would be far simpler (and far less dangerous) to just automatically add 10 seconds (or whatever) to that drivers time as a deterrent. I know that could cause the real race result to not be what was seen on the track 9so to speak), but it would have the same effect.

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Grass could be a safety issue as the car could spin, which some have already pointed out.

I thought of traffic cones outlining the boundaries but someone mentioned Polystyrene, or in American, Styrofoam blocks. They could look like SAFER barrier but without the consequences, or less drastic some form proximity detection, that reports back to race control.

Cars could spin? Heaven forbid if a driver actually makes an error and spins out as a result of a mistake. Teams and drivers should bear the consequences of such miscalculations. Tracks have become far too sanitised in my view, they want to remove every last obstacle and challenge.

[F1Guy]

So Mika Salo has received several death threats. No matter what you thought of the decision, that is completely unacceptable behaviour by Verstappen fans. Max has not helped the situation with his latest comments. Max needs to put this right ASAP.

MV is definitely a future world champion. Not a doubt about that. But I have to say he's comments post race have not been very professional, and now he's fans have over stepped the mark. I have lost some respect for him over the last few days.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by RWill2073

Here's an idea: throw a fresh coat of green paint on the asphalt off the designated track. If a driver gets a wheel off, or all four, there's clear evidence on his tires- penalty. ;p even get the green look for appearance sake haha.

I don't think the problem is detecting when cars go off track - it's more about the enforcing of it. Detection of when drivers leave circuit is already fairly conclusive through the amount of camera coverage.

I can also see two issues with the 'paint on tyre' solution:

A - How many rotations of the tyre would it take for the paint to be scrubbed off?
B - Would the adhesion of paint on the tyre cause a loss of traction? Imagine if Verstappen had come into contact with paint during his overtake, that caused his car to slide into Raikkonen and take them both out of the race!

[littleman]

Or......just keep the rules as they are.

The stewards didn't make a bad decision throughout the US Grand Prix, and frankly seldom do. I don't think they need to accommodate Verstappen or Red Bull or anyone else come to that.

Verstappen clearly broke the rules and gained a very considerable advantage.....
suck it up son, you tried it on and got caught in the act.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Purist

Unless they're using a spec ECU, which I'm not aware they are, this could also run into issues of proprietary software, mechanicals, and other sorts of IP on the part of the manufacturers. I doubt that that's a legal can of worms that the FIA would really WANT to break in to.

For a number of years, all teams have to use a standard ECU produced by the McLaren Group, as mandated by the FIA after a full tendering process.

Individual teams and/or PU providers are permitted to write software amendments that are required for their particular car/engine combination within certain parameters, and a copy of the final software package has to be deposited with the FIA prior to the start of each season, and cannot be altered during the season without the permission of both the FIA and all the other teams.

[S griffin]

Mention of cutting power when cutting a corner reminds me of Microprose GP2 when that's exactly what the computer would do if you cut a corner, with a black flag in the top left corner.

[Taxi645]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

So Mika Salo has received several death threats. No matter what you thought of the decision, that is completely unacceptable behaviour by Verstappen fans. Max has not helped the situation with his latest comments. Max needs to put this right ASAP.

MV is definitely a future world champion. Not a doubt about that. But I have to say he's comments post race have not been very professional, and now he's fans have over stepped the mark. I have lost some respect for him over the last few days.

I agree he should make a statement and clearly condemn such fan behaviour.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Cars could spin? Heaven forbid if a driver actually makes an error and spins out as a result of a mistake. Teams and drivers should bear the consequences of such miscalculations. Tracks have become far too sanitised in my view, they want to remove every last obstacle and challenge.

I don't think anyone really wants to see cars unnecessarily spinning off the track but if a grass strip could be used as a means to keep drivers within track limits, because of the possibility of spinning when coming in contact with it, then that's possibly a good reason to use grass.

I still think something like a Styrofoam SAFER barrier is the better option, especially on tracks shared with bikes.

[Wims]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Cars could spin? Heaven forbid if a driver actually makes an error and spins out as a result of a mistake. Teams and drivers should bear the consequences of such miscalculations. Tracks have become far too sanitised in my view, they want to remove every last obstacle and challenge.

We need more dead drivers in motorsport IMO, not nearly enough of them are dying for our entertainment these days!

[ASCII Man]

Originally Posted by Wims

We need more dead drivers in motorsport IMO, not nearly enough of them are dying for our entertainment these days!

Ugh... this non-argument again... Seriously?

[Akrapovic]

Why is it when we discuss safety, anyone who claims that the current tracks have gone too far, is met with "so you want dead drivers?". Why is it that black and white? Why is there no shade of grey here?

For what it's worth - I don't want dead drivers. I don't want injured drivers. I want to protect the drivers, through extremely safe cars, and through safe race tracks. However I also believe that some things significantly degrade the sport, and you can achieve something almost as safe that would help the sport, just as grass strips.

If anyone is actually making a serious argument for "we don't want cars to spin", then you can roll this argument out for decreasing power, adding stability control and traction control, abs, etc. All of these are safety precautions too. Why don't we want these? You don't want dead drivers, right? Or does it sound a bit silly when you put it in a different context.

I say we just all watch Roborace. The safest accident is one where the driver isn't even at the track, right?

[Number4]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

So Mika Salo has received several death threats. No matter what you thought of the decision, that is completely unacceptable behaviour by Verstappen fans. Max has not helped the situation with his latest comments. Max needs to put this right ASAP.

MV is definitely a future world champion. Not a doubt about that. But I have to say he's comments post race have not been very professional, and now he's fans have over stepped the mark. I have lost some respect for him over the last few days.

Probably posters from motorsport.com. I followed a link over there. The article was quite incendiary, blaming the steward. In the comments section, they were raising a lynch mob, posting email addresses of Garry Connelly and making suggestions as to what to say to him. Anybody who thought the call was good was rabidly turned upon.
As far as I can remember, Salo was one of the nicest guys you could hope to meet. Shame, but that is the internet for you, lots of tough guys hiding behind computer screens.

[loon]

Originally Posted by Number4

Probably posters from motorsport.com. I followed a link over there. The article was quite incendiary, blaming the steward. In the comments section, they were raising a lynch mob, posting email addresses of Garry Connelly and making suggestions as to what to say to him. Anybody who thought the call was good was rabidly turned upon.
As far as I can remember, Salo was one of the nicest guys you could hope to meet. Shame, but that is the internet for you, lots of tough guys hiding behind computer screens.

For me the heart and soul of F1 has truly ripped away from the hearts of true motorsport fans and is now just an endless sensation for fanboys and celebrity obsessives, how on earth can anyone who cares about motorsport send death threats to a race steward

[Matt]

Originally Posted by loon

For me the heart and soul of F1 has truly ripped away from the hearts of true motorsport fans and is now just an endless sensation for fanboys and celebrity obsessives, how on earth can anyone who cares about motorsport send death threats to a race steward

idk, i feel like the same thing would have been done back in the senna/prost days if it could have been.

and the MSC days.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by loon

For me the heart and soul of F1 has truly ripped away from the hearts of true motorsport fans and is now just an endless sensation for fanboys and celebrity obsessives, how on earth can anyone who cares about motorsport send death threats to a race steward

There were always idiots in the world - it's just not everybody has a platform (albeit it a small one) in the form of comments sections. Now we can see the idiots.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

There were always idiots in the world - it's just not everybody has a platform (albeit it a small one) in the form of comments sections. Now we can see the idiots.

I like the Louis Armstrong one.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by loon

For me the heart and soul of F1 has truly ripped away from the hearts of true motorsport fans and is now just an endless sensation for fanboys and celebrity obsessives, how on earth can anyone who cares about motorsport send death threats to a race steward

I ignore all that fanboy, celebrity guff but death threats, that's a very nasty trend, made all the more easier by the internet and social media. However, in these days of the internet and social media, it's fortunately very easy to trace those making these threats.

[chillibowl]

in fairness though this isnt a recent or post internet era phenomenon...fanatics have been threatening harm and/or committing violence against referees for as long as anyone can remember.

sadly one of the darker aspects of sports.

the odd thing for me though is why has Salo been targeted when Max's post race comments were directed at a different official?

but that said, i dont blame Max as i dont think he bears responsibility for the more rabid members of his fanbase, but i do hope he does realize that his comments can have a larger effect...tough lesson for the young man to learn but from the press conference im sure sure he has.

[bauble]

If Max was OK to use the inside of the last corner to pass Kimi, then Kimi could have used it to stop Max using it, and no doubt Max maniacs would be wanting Kimi to be penalised for doing so. What is good for the goose ......

[bella]

Originally Posted by Matt

idk, i feel like the same thing would have been done back in the senna/prost days if it could have been.

and the MSC days.

still happens - apparently ocon has a need for security this week in mexico thanks to the on-track drama with his teammate.

[Sodemo]

Back in 1999 a crazed fan wrote to Irvine saying that he would shoot out Hakkinens tyre at the Japanese Grand Prix.

[F1Guy]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

tough lesson for the young man to learn but from the press conference im sure sure he has.

Not too sure about that. The closest MV got to an appology was "I could have used different words..." and "I was not trying to offend anyone..." But he went on to say the following which does not help the situation.

Max Verstappen: "Everybody was running off the track at Turn 19, 8 and 9, even in Turn 6 when you were behind someone you were cutting the inside – a lot of cars were doing it.

"I think also the fans loved it, it was a great move. Then they tell you that you are gaining an advantage while overtaking someone.

"If I was really gaining an advantage I would do it every single lap. I don’t think it’s gaining an advantage.

"A lot of people did it was well, cutting the inside of the corners, and I’m the only one who is getting penalised, which is not correct.

"I think it’s quite normal that I get angry. I could have used a few different words, but I still think the decision is not correct."




But has now posted the following on his Instagram account.

Max Verstappen: "Further to what I said during the FIA press conference earlier today, I would once again apologise for the language that I used following the US Grand Prix.

"My comments were made in the heat of the moment, I know that the words I used were inappropriate and they were not directed at any one person.

"I certainly did not mean to cause any offence and I hope we can move on and enjoy this race weekend."


Much better. But is that Max or RBR?