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Old 20 Jul 2011, 00:06 (Ref:2928772)   #61
Japanese Samurai
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This concept was for FCJ (Formula Challenge Japan). However, this proposal was not adopted. The chassis of Formula Renault is used now.

<SPEC>
Wheel Base: 2600mm
Front Tread: 1450mm
Rear Tread :1400mm
Weight: 460kg
G.C Height: 280mm
Monocoque: Carbon composites + Aluminum honeycomb
NoseBox: Carbon composites + Aluminum honeycomb
Body Work: CFRP
Under Tray: Stepped bottom + Diffuser
Wing: (Fr/Rr)Carbon composites(adjustable)
Suspension: (Fr/Rr) Double wishbone + Push rod, lnboard damper / SpringDamper2way adjustable
Brake: 4pod caliper + Ventilated discTyre / WheelFCJ tyre + Aluminum cast wheel
Transmission: Hewland JFR 5 speed sequential
Engine: 2lt、4 cylinder in line, Dry sump.(Power: up to 250hp. Torque: 25kg-m)
Safety: Conformity to FIA Latest F-3 standard + α, Side intrusion test
Extractable seats (Optional), Double belt system, Footbox protection
etc.
Data Logger: New generation Wireless logging system (Optional)
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Old 20 Jul 2011, 11:50 (Ref:2928939)   #62
luke g28
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I really like that Japanese concept. Would have no qualms if F1 adopted it. Cant imagine they would ever agree to such a radical change mind.

While im here, Redbulls "unlimited regs" concept

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Old 20 Jul 2011, 14:36 (Ref:2929021)   #63
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In r acecar engineering a few years back, they did a unlimited refs
It had two axles in backs for 4 tires one up front and a trim tab front wing and all sorts of magic undertray.. I can't remeber the issue, itwas ugly and WilliamsF1 liveried.
A fighter cockpit isn't terrible but open wheel and open cockpit like many prototypes look better with the struggling driver available. Afterall great cars are worn as extensions and suiits for the driver, they don't just sit inside.
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Old 20 Jul 2011, 16:00 (Ref:2929044)   #64
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Luke, I think I'll take an Alpine-Renault A442 or A443 over that thing.

Cars can still catch fire, so I would NOT want an air bottle in close proximity to the driver. And if a driver is truly incapacitated, even if they've just been knocked out temporarily, the rescue teams will take several minutes to winch an enclosed car back upright, to make sure they do NOT potentially injure the driver. Even if the car is upright, it's been common practice for decades to cut the roof off of a car to extract a driver who appears to be in need of assistance. So, an automatic device that would roll the car back over suddenly I am unabashedly opposed to. That is a job specifically for the rescue crews, to be performed in a very carefully controlled manner.

And yes, talking about putting a canopy as a safety device on a car that has nil structural integrity in the first place is REALLY putting the cart before the horse!

There's a video of Stirling Moss driving a 1959 Cooper Climax at Donington on YouTube, and he makes a very telling comment about the relative strength of cars of then and now. And taking into account that structural rigidity didn't start to improve markedly until the latter part of the 1970s, or early 1980s, the relative rigidity of F1 cars has increased by 40x or so in the last 30-35 years.

Back to the topic at hand, with all the belts and restraints, a driver is often relatively incapacitated if his car is upside down. He may hardly be able to move at all, and the way the human brain is wired, we become disoriented, at least to some extent, when held in a non-upright position. So he may be unable to properly manipulate a manual canopy release while upside down, and if there is concern of a back or neck injury in particular, you do NOT want an automatic release.

Besides, if a small enough object, with enough mass, and going fast enough encounters the canopy, it will punch a hole in it. I think the spring that hit Massa could well be such an object, even with a canopy in place. And you can't make the canopy too think ,or it impacts visibility by being less trnasparent, and may act as a lens/prism, distorting a driver's depth perception.

At the end of the day, I think the canopy adds FAR more complications than it's worth for the EXTREMELY FEW injuries it might minimize or eliminate.

Last edited by Purist; 20 Jul 2011 at 16:11.
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Old 20 Jul 2011, 18:40 (Ref:2929099)   #65
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Originally Posted by wnut View Post
The post was in response to this bit of gttouring's post

"i can't think of many World of Outlaw or Midget/ sprint USAC silver crown head accidents from debris, and someone goes end over end in every race."

I was merely eluding to the fact that Sprint car racing is not a bastion of good practice in racing safety, do in fact have full roll cages around the drivers, and still does injure and kill a lot of drivers.


Go here

http://www.motorsportmemorial.org/index.php?db=ct

and search for Sprint Car fatalities. 27 Fatalities since 2000.
I have no idea how many injuries.
Sorry it did not come through I was a bit tonguein cheek, these carsare built to this standard in an insane racing series and itstill does little better than decades ago. A canopy in F1 wont help much from flips or as stated from smallerobjects piercing thru. There can be a compromise here. But birthed is the actual solution
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Old 20 Jul 2011, 23:23 (Ref:2929207)   #66
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Originally Posted by luke g28 View Post
I really like that Japanese concept. Would have no qualms if F1 adopted it. Cant imagine they would ever agree to such a radical change mind.

While im here, Redbulls "unlimited regs" concept

Thanks luke 28, again I had not seen a picture of this car, it looks awesome, has anyone got any more; perhaps side and top views.
It looks perfectly acceptable - no tinting allowed!

Even in a roll over situation a canopy would dissapate a hell of a lot more energy than a human neck or crash helmet.

The argument against an the Brawn spring piercing the canopy are not accurate.
If you look at the damage to Massa's helmet and then imagine the above canopy made out of automotive laminated shatterproof safety glass and bearing in mind it has about an 10 degree angle of inclination to the approaching spring, it would certainly deflect the spring clear of the driver.
Even if it did penetrate; chance very low; the energy would have been massively dissipated, and the helmet would then have done its job.

In a roll over situation a canopy would dissapate a hell of a lot more energy than a human neck or crash helmeted head. Bear in mind the 10 degree angle compared to the nearly 90 degree of the front of the helmet to an approaching object.
Deflection is all you need!

Last edited by wnut; 20 Jul 2011 at 23:29.
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Old 20 Jul 2011, 23:29 (Ref:2929208)   #67
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Originally Posted by wnut View Post
Thanks luke 28, again I had not seen a picture of this car, it looks awesome, has anyone got any more; perhaps side and top views.
It looks perfectly acceptable - no tinting allowed!

The argument against an the Brawn spring piercing the canopy are not accurate.
If you look at the damage to Massa's helmet and then imagine the above canopy made out of automotive laminated shatterproof safety glass and bearing in mind it has about an 10 degree angle of inclination to the approaching spring, it would certainly deflect the spring clear of the driver.
Even if it did penetrate; chance very low; the energy would have been massively dissipated, and the helmet would then have done its job.
Looks like Red Bull got to gether with Lockheed and produced something from Lockheed's Skunkworks peojects; would look good at Indy, better than the new Dallara. I could see Lola designing something like this.
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Old 20 Jul 2011, 23:43 (Ref:2929216)   #68
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http://www.gtplanet.net/red-bull-x1-...o-screenshots/

Some Pics concept below
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Old 20 Jul 2011, 23:48 (Ref:2929218)   #69
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Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith View Post
Looks like Red Bull got to gether with Lockheed and produced something from Lockheed's Skunkworks peojects; would look good at Indy, better than the new Dallara. I could see Lola designing something like this.
Looks well worth exploring to me.
For years I have advocated frontal protection for drivers, and this quite honestly seems like a concept that should be explored, and it would apparently look high tech and just plain awesome. Lockheed should know a bit about canopies by now you'd hope. Technology transfer!
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Old 20 Jul 2011, 23:50 (Ref:2929219)   #70
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All I'm going to say here is this. "F1 cars should be cars that have models made of them, NOT cars that are modeled after BAD, "futuristic-styled" Hot Wheels toys."
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Old 20 Jul 2011, 23:59 (Ref:2929220)   #71
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All I'm going to say here is this. "F1 cars should be cars that have models made of them, NOT cars that are modeled after BAD, "futuristic-styled" Hot Wheels toys."
Its worth than that they are computer simulations from a game,
F1 would never use that type of technology
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Old 21 Jul 2011, 00:07 (Ref:2929222)   #72
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Its worth than that they are computer simulations from a game,
F1 would never use that type of technology
rFactor spings to mind.
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Old 21 Jul 2011, 10:37 (Ref:2929359)   #73
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luke g28 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridluke g28 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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All I'm going to say here is this. "F1 cars should be cars that have models made of them, NOT cars that are modeled after BAD, "futuristic-styled" Hot Wheels toys."
And there I was mistakenly thinking that F1 was the pinnacle of motorsport and that speed via innovative technology was its greatest appeal.

Maybe we need a different series to promote such a thing and F1 can have the cars frozen in the "golden age" they are in now.

F1 needs to move with new tech not oppose it at every opportunity. Its supposed to be pioneering not a throw back to what you used to watch. I like the Red bull concept for what it stands for. If it has to look like that to be the fastest around a track then great. If another team can make one that goes as fast following the current regs then all power to them but im more interested in performance and innovation than looks.
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Old 21 Jul 2011, 11:14 (Ref:2929378)   #74
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duke_toaster should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridduke_toaster should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I prefer the FCJ concept, I'd rather the cars had open wheels from the top, but the design around the front wing does look good. I'm torn on the lights issue, they do have some advantages but do make the cars a bit more prototypey.
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Old 21 Jul 2011, 20:46 (Ref:2929575)   #75
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I prefer the FCJ concept, I'd rather the cars had open wheels from the top, but the design around the front wing does look good. I'm torn on the lights issue, they do have some advantages but do make the cars a bit more prototypey.
It certainly has the touch of the LMPs about it.
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