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Old 22 Dec 2017, 20:34 (Ref:3788759)   #1501
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Flis's SoD Racing will put a new Cadillac DPi-V.R on the grid with T. Vautier and Matt McMurry piloting it. ...

http://www.racer.com/imsa/item/14642...lac-dpi-effort






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Old 22 Dec 2017, 22:23 (Ref:3788772)   #1502
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Originally Posted by canaglia View Post
Torque can't be killed by bop
It can, and it(partially) was. By limiting things in the gearbox it doesn't take away the torque, but it limits their ability to use it. I forget the specifics, but one of the rounds of BoP did alter the Caddilac gearbox specifically to tackle the torque advantage, and it was indeed at that point that things started looking far more balanced.
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Old 22 Dec 2017, 22:24 (Ref:3788773)   #1503
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Originally Posted by canaglia View Post
Or maybe GM paid dallara to support WTR.
As anybody already knew, the main secret of cadillac DPi success is the huge engine. Torque can't be killed by bop, to have a more balanced competition, couldn't be a bad idea to limit 5500cc as max displacement for NA engines.
They tried to remedy that with the long first gear. But what I think is the combination of the engine and the fact they had testing done way before anyone else gave them the leg up. If the others are as sorted this year, then the only question is the bop and drivers.
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Old 23 Dec 2017, 00:18 (Ref:3788790)   #1504
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Joel Miller first driver announced in the Bar1 car


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Old 23 Dec 2017, 08:20 (Ref:3788810)   #1505
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Originally Posted by FormulaFox View Post
It can, and it(partially) was. By limiting things in the gearbox it doesn't take away the torque, but it limits their ability to use it. I forget the specifics, but one of the rounds of BoP did alter the Caddilac gearbox specifically to tackle the torque advantage, and it was indeed at that point that things started looking far more balanced.
If am I not wrong, mandatory gears ratios have been introduced at detroit, and a cadillac dpi won however.
I explain better what I mean for "bop can't kill torque".
In a turbo engine can be decreased or increased the torque release just setting X turbo boost at X rpm; this way, you can basically design the torque curve you wish.
In a NA you can use air restrictors, but you just will obtain a torque reduction at high-end rpm. Low-mid rpm torque release will remain almost untouched. That's what I mean for "bop can't kill torque".

That's why to me NA max displacement should be set to 5.5L. This way torque release should be in the 650Nm range, like nissan and HPD V6 motors.
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Old 23 Dec 2017, 11:05 (Ref:3788834)   #1506
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Originally Posted by canaglia View Post
If am I not wrong, mandatory gears ratios have been introduced at detroit, and a cadillac dpi won however.
Yes, but that's when the other cars started getting more reliably clsoe to them.

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I explain better what I mean for "bop can't kill torque".
I know what you meant. They may have been road cars, but I've tuned enough turbos in my time.

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In a NA you can use air restrictors, but you just will obtain a torque reduction at high-end rpm. Low-mid rpm torque release will remain almost untouched. That's what I mean for "bop can't kill torque".
This is why you bop by gear ratios when dealing with the torque of a big NA V8 engine. The torque may still be there, but the gear ratios prevent it from being the massive advantage it was before. As we saw, when the gearing for the Caddys was changed, they lost much of their corner exit advantage, and it only took a couple more much smaller swings to get things to the point where non-Caddys were winning.

Prior to the gearing change, IMSA was taking MASSIVE(comparatively) swings at the Caddys. After it, they were rather tiny.

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That's why to me NA max displacement should be set to 5.5L. This way torque release should be in the 650Nm range, like nissan and HPD V6 motors.
The 5.5 liter engine in the Corvette C7.R is believed to produce ~550 lbs-ft(or ~700 nm) of torque when run unrestricted(unrestricted it's said to be capable of ~700 horsepower, as well). So if you want to bring it down via displacement limits, you need to go a bit further down.

GM knows what they're doing with V8s.

Last edited by FormulaFox; 23 Dec 2017 at 11:13.
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Old 23 Dec 2017, 11:48 (Ref:3788838)   #1507
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I know that c7r can push over 700Nm, but is an extremely tuned racing engine made to copy the katech ls7r concept = insane torque release to achieve max power as soon as possible, indeed the engine revs up to just 6500rpm.
In its roots is almost a bespoke engine.

Cadillac dpi is a ECR tuned version of the road LT1, that share more parts with the street motor. According to some sources of mine, corvete DP 5.5 (LS9 derivated) was pushing 540-560hp (according to restrictors size) at about 7000rpm revving up to 7500rpm with a torque release of about 640Nm.
With larger restrictors to get 20-30hp more, it would be a quite balanced engine compared to the huge 6.2L.
No more need of extra ballast, smaller fuel tank, mandatory low DF rear wing and mandatory gears ratios.
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Old 23 Dec 2017, 18:41 (Ref:3788873)   #1508
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I know that c7r can push over 700Nm, but is an extremely tuned racing engine made to copy the katech ls7r concept = insane torque release to achieve max power as soon as possible, indeed the engine revs up to just 6500rpm.
In its roots is almost a bespoke engine.

Cadillac dpi is a ECR tuned version of the road LT1, that share more parts with the street motor. According to some sources of mine, corvete DP 5.5 (LS9 derivated) was pushing 540-560hp (according to restrictors size) at about 7000rpm revving up to 7500rpm with a torque release of about 640Nm.
With larger restrictors to get 20-30hp more, it would be a quite balanced engine compared to the huge 6.2L.
No more need of extra ballast, smaller fuel tank, mandatory low DF rear wing and mandatory gears ratios.
The C7.R engine is production-derived as well despite it' being so heavily tuned for racing. Even if IMSA had a production-based requirement, do you think GM would NOT use the better engine?

The old DP engine was not 5.5 liters, it was 5 liters.
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Old 23 Dec 2017, 19:41 (Ref:3788887)   #1509
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Maybe am I wrong, and correct me if I am.

Corvette 5.5L history is this:
In 2009 corvette racing switched to GT2 after le mans, katech destroked the LS7R to 6L allowing the car to score points in ALMS.
In 2010 GM dropped katech as engine tuner/supplier and designed in house a new 5.5L engine to suit FIA/ACO GTE/GT2 tech rules. It's still based on the road LS7 but extremely tuned to work as a dyno like katech ls7r was.
Season by season GM kept on developing and evolving this engine.
In late 2013 they added fuel DI because new road LT1 engine was equipped, so it could be equipped in the racing engine too.
That's the reason I wrote that corvette C7R is an "almost" bespoke engine, because is some kind of stand alone platform.
No matter what new kind of engine series a road corvette may be powered, C7R will keep on using the 5.5L base.

You're wrong about corvette DP.
2012-2013 corvette DP engine was a 5L
(mandatory displacement for V8 in grand-am. Ford R&Y V8, BMW dinan V8, Porsche cayenne derived V8, GM V8 were all 5L because of rules)

2014-2016 corvette DP engine was updated by ECR and enlarged to 5.5L
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Old 23 Dec 2017, 19:57 (Ref:3788891)   #1510
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Originally Posted by canaglia View Post
You're wrong about corvette DP.
2012-2013 corvette DP engine was a 5L
(mandatory displacement for V8 in grand-am. Ford R&Y V8, BMW dinan V8, Porsche cayenne derived V8, GM V8 were all 5L because of rules)

2014-2016 corvette DP engine was updated by ECR and enlarged to 5.5L
Ah, you were referring explicitly to the update to speed the car up, not the previous version.

I had assumed you meant the OLD one because, well updated engine had FAR more torque than you seem to think. It was an absolute beast, which is why it so consistently outran the LMP2s.
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Old 23 Dec 2017, 20:18 (Ref:3788893)   #1511
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More torque than nissan-zytek VK45 for sure; but "boost boosted" HPD 2.8 and the larger 3.5 V6 (basically the same engine that arx05 will use next season) ligiers were in the same torque range.
Nissan LMP2 V8 was in the range of 540Nm and 500-520hp @7000rpm.

Pre 2014 Grand Am 5L V8 were almost spec engines with torque and power figures more or less equalized by bop. Something like 580-600Nm and 500-520hp somewhere between 7000 and 7500rpm.

According to my most recent sources:
Corvette DP 5.5L in 2014 had about 560hp@about 7000rpm with 640Nm torque range. Power was nerfed in next 2 seasons to about 540hp in 2016.

Ford V6 3.5L was in the range of 550hp @ about 7300rpm (it could rev up to almost 8000rpm) but had less torque than corvette DP, 600-620Nm torque range.


Even if because of bop restrictors size decrease, very likely cadillac dpi can't reach 600hp, I can't expect nothing less than 700Nm from that 6.2L.
A torque amount unachievable for any other kind of engine, most of Nm already available at lowest rpm.

Repeat, to me max displacement for NA should be to set to 5.5L, but is just my opinion.
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Old 24 Dec 2017, 01:10 (Ref:3788926)   #1512
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Joel Miller first driver announced in the Bar1 car


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It will be nice to see what he can do in the car.
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Flis's SoD Racing will put a new Cadillac DPi-V.R on the grid with T. Vautier and Matt McMurry piloting it. ...

http://www.racer.com/imsa/item/14642...lac-dpi-effort






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I think Vautier is top notch, and McMurry has a ton of experience for a 20 year old! Seriously wish them well, and it will be interesting to see the young guys come to grips with the proto.
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Old 24 Dec 2017, 03:03 (Ref:3788935)   #1513
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Joel Miller first driver announced in the Bar1 car
I think it was a good choice. Miller have what the team needs, experience with the car. He showed some moments of speed, but we know he isn't one of the fastest. Good for him to be able to show what he can with the updated car.
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Old 24 Dec 2017, 15:57 (Ref:3789031)   #1514
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There's change in the Jackie Chan DC Racing second car, previously announced Thomas Laurent is out, Antonio Felix da Costa & Ferdinand Habsburg are in.

Perhaps a sign Thomas Laurent is definitely out of DC and in with Rebellion for the WEC season


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Old 24 Dec 2017, 19:26 (Ref:3789063)   #1515
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http://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/da...p-for-daytona/

Wow. Royalty is literally coming to the Daytona 24. Ferdinand is a direct heir to the Austrian throne and the famous Hapsburg dynasty which is very much alive still.
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