HANS Devices - Discussion from Andy Neate thread.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by JamesH

Nothing wrong with thermoplastic! I would expect it to be as strong, but heavier. And cheaper!! Hurrah!!

HANS Devices - Sport Series

• Injection molded super structural carbon fiber
• Same performance as other HANS Devices
• About one pound heavier than HANS Device Extra Series

[tristancliffe]

Originally Posted by JamesH

you can use HANS compatible belts by themselves I pressume)

Depends on the belt. You might not want to use one of the slipstop style belts without a HANS as the rubber teeth might be uncomfortable and act as stress raisers on your shoulders. And you might find that 2" belts are too narrow to be 'legal' without a HANS being used.

But you'd have to check the details yourself to be sure.

Make sure that the shoulder adjusters are at the right point - on the HANS the adjuster should sit on the lower most point of the HANS, so if you order some belts without try and make sure you can get the adjusters in the right place.

[graeme]

Do you still have to use 2" shoulder straps with HANS?

[johnw]

No Graeme 3" straps are fine.

[tristancliffe]

But some HANS specific belts remain at 2"

[Eddy V]

Those belts were made because with the early Hans, the 3" sometimes slipped off the shoulderpads. But that has been redone on all systems, so no danger there.
Besides FIA banned proper 2" belts just before that, reintroduced them as 3-2-3 for Hans and got loads of complaints as to why they were all of the sudden "safe" again.
There should be no problem whatsoever for using 3" belts with a Hans.

[AU N EGL]

I run a 3" belt over my HANS.

Do have to have some one check too assure that the belt is properly located on the HANS shoulder rests. There is a slight lip on the edge to hold belts in place. I cant bend my head down to see.

When you ware a HANS you do need, or I do at least, take a few extra minutes too assure I am hook up properly; radio earplug, Chin strap, Head sock down in the suite, suite collar fastened, Glasses back on, Harnesses attached properly, radio plugged in and WORKING. Cool suit hoses attached and working.

Figures, then I HAVE TO go to the bathroom.

[tristancliffe]

I also use a 3", non HANS specific belt with my HANS, and never had any problems. Mine doesn't have winglets, but has the slipstop stuff, and it grips the standard webbing pretty well - it'll never come off!

[AU N EGL]

For all you guys who dont want to buy a HANS.

Read the last post ( #244) on this thread
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=108411



It is not IF you hit the wall it is WHEN.

[Peter Dunne]

I just read that post and its pretty sobering stuff alright.

We can whinge and moan about the cost of HANS for all eternity, but is there even one amongst us who, if posed the question "Would you have paid $10,000 for a HANS?" at the Pearly Gates, that would answer "No"?

[AU N EGL]

The Medical Examiner was quite curtain he died from a broken neck do to whiplash. Yes I did know this person. So it REALLY hits home

Hans device is a life saver in about 90% of the impacts. A full side impact is almost impossible to protect against without a nascar seat.

[Stuart H]

If the msa brings in rules say for 2010 for example does any one think that the price of the hans device will come down in price at all?

[steveng]

Some years ago I bit the bullet and bought a Hans device. I have reluctantly crash tested my neck several times since. So far I still have full use of my spinal nerves and I have to assume that the Hans has something to do with this happy state of affairs. For this I am very grateful.
The cost of the device was considerable but worth it (see above). How long is it before the powers that be put some arbitrary age limit of Hans like they do for belts and helmets? Then we will have to add Hans devices to the ever expanding list of 'things that have to be replaced even though they are fine'.

[eamonn ledwidge]

Shopping abroad for a suitable Hans device is a good idea - I purchased my last and current Bell helmet in USA at a substantial cost saving (50%) to UK & EU prices. I had Hans posts fitted to my most recent helmet purchase & am planning to buy the device in January.

The same must apply to Hans & I will be doing the research shortly. I would urge all of you to do the same. However, not all devices are FIA approved at this time. Below is a direct transcript from a recent bulletin issued by Motorsport Ireland on the subject.

Quote -

"As you may be aware the wearing a head restraint approved by the FIA e.g. HANS® will be mandatory for all drivers and co-drivers partaking in the following events:


All Motorsport Ireland National and International Stages Rally events from 01.01.2009.
All FIA Championships, Trophies, Cups and Challenges from 01.01.2008.
All events entered on the International Sporting Calendar from 01.01.2009.


A number of Head and Neck Support Devices have been submitted to the FIA to assess their compliance with FIA Standard 8858-2000. Unfortunately, a number of these devices have not yet complied with this standard and therefore cannot be approved. When purchasing your head restraint please ensure that it is approved by the FIA and has the appropriate label.


The Guide for the use of the HANS device in motor sport can be found using this link: http://www.fiainstitute.com/documents/HANS_Guide.pdf "

end quote


If there is any doubt amongst you that the Hans device will not become mandatory in the next few years, then please read it again.

The founder of Bell helmets said: "if you have a $10 head, buy a €10 helmet" - I think the same applies to the purchase of a Hans device. Its your neck, would you risk it for £500?

[haggispeed]

I too have been looking at buying a HANS in the US, unfortunately there's not such a great saving on them now around $695 + local county sales tax so around £500 as the £ has slipped below $1.50 today compared to £444 at GPR ....

[Jen-MSAR]

Only just spotted this thread. Very interesting reading to hear all you different opinions on the HANS device. As someone who has crashed and suffered a neck injury which thankfully was no more than serve whiplash, and now as a UK agent for SCHROTH Racing the HANS manufacturer, I have very positive opinions about the HANS. I have heard the pros and cons and heard many people who have benefited from the HANS and if I could I would give every competitor one for free as I would love all of you to use them. But unfortunately that is not the case and I am unable to do that… However we now sell the Sports model at £375. Hopefully this will encourage more people to invest in a device that could save your life! For more information please have a look here http://www.msar-safety.com/index.php...roducts_id=148 . If you would like any more info please ask and I will happily answer anything I can! Thanks Jen

[MGDavid]

just in case anyone missed it, it's £431 incl VAT.... which is still a lot better than 2 years ago...

[dtype38]

Jen-MSAR, wonder if you could advise on a little bit of an issue I've had with my HANS in the last season. Two or three times I've had a shoulder strap slip off the device. It's not uncomfortable, but it is very disconcerting, not to mention quite tricky to get back in postion without coming into the pits. Its only happened since I changed my seat to a low back type without shoulder loops for the harness, but from reading the blurb I don't think I should have been using the seat to hold it in place anyway.

I have to make two changes this winter for next season. First is dual mounting loops for the shoulder straps (I currently only have a single) then I have to get a new harness (date's up as of this year). I'm hoping that crossing my straps on the new dual mounts will help, but I was wondering if you know if an early Schroth HANS device like mine (smooth shoulder rubbers and no wings) can be retro-fitted with the new Slip-Stop system? Thanks

[Jen-MSAR]

Originally Posted by dtype38

Jen-MSAR, wonder if you could advise on a little bit of an issue I've had with my HANS in the last season. Two or three times I've had a shoulder strap slip off the device. It's not uncomfortable, but it is very disconcerting, not to mention quite tricky to get back in postion without coming into the pits. Its only happened since I changed my seat to a low back type without shoulder loops for the harness, but from reading the blurb I don't think I should have been using the seat to hold it in place anyway.

I have to make two changes this winter for next season. First is dual mounting loops for the shoulder straps (I currently only have a single) then I have to get a new harness (date's up as of this year). I'm hoping that crossing my straps on the new dual mounts will help, but I was wondering if you know if an early Schroth HANS device like mine (smooth shoulder rubbers and no wings) can be retro-fitted with the new Slip-Stop system? Thanks

Hi!

Unfortunately the older HANS are not able to be fitted with Slip Stop as this is applied at the point of manufacture. I would like to see pictures of the seat and harness set up you currently have..to be honest with you, it sounds like a poor harness installation (but I know that in some styles of car it is hard to get the installation correct) although correct installation or harnesses is critical to allow the HANS to work as intended. I have several diagrams and formulas I can send over to you so that you can check if yours is correct. The main points to consider are that Harnesses should converge behind the driver and run flat across the shoulders with a downward angle of no more than 20 degrees. The downward angle should be no more than this and they should never be an upward angle...


The length behind the driver and the mounting points should be as small as possible and if over 8" (saloon style car usually) They should be crossed over with FIA approved roll cage padding acting as a spacer between the straps on a harness bar.

You also need to make sure the hardware is located in the right place. Your harness will either be sewn or wrapped, if it is wrapped you will most likely have a 3 bar slide which is used to wrap the harness. This needs to be locked in position, by folding the webbing over the top a second time to show only one bar and this must be positioned as close to the mounting point (harness bar or snap hook) as possible



It sounds to me like you really should be using the SlipStop system as this really really helps with situations like yours.

I hope this information is useful. If you need anything else please just ask.

Thanks

Jen

[Tim Falce]

Hi Jen
Many thanks for that post, it certainly clears quite a few things up and has taught me, and hopefully a few other people, some things that may not be common knowledge.

I see they only come in the 20 degree version, what angle of seating position is this suitable for and how do you measure for sizing?
Will you be at the Autosport show?

[eamonn ledwidge]

Originally Posted by Jen-MSAR

Only just spotted this thread. Very interesting reading to hear all you different opinions on the HANS device. As someone who has crashed and suffered a neck injury which thankfully was no more than serve whiplash, and now as a UK agent for SCHROTH Racing the HANS manufacturer, I have very positive opinions about the HANS. I have heard the pros and cons and heard many people who have benefited from the HANS and if I could I would give every competitor one for free as I would love all of you to use them. But unfortunately that is not the case and I am unable to do that… However we now sell the Sports model at £375. Hopefully this will encourage more people to invest in a device that could save your life! For more information please have a look here http://www.msar-safety.com/index.php...roducts_id=148 . If you would like any more info please ask and I will happily answer anything I can! Thanks Jen

Many thanks for the info.

I know a lot of folks on here will be looking to buy a new Hans device for next year. Will you be offering a 10 Tenths bulk buy discount deal??????

[Jen-MSAR]

Yes I will be at Autosport with Schroth Racing. Please come and say hello. Thanks Jen

[Jen-MSAR]

Originally Posted by eamonn ledwidge

Many thanks for the info.

I know a lot of folks on here will be looking to buy a new Hans device for next year. Will you be offering a 10 Tenths bulk buy discount deal??????

You might have to wait and see .......................

[dtype38]

Thanks for your post Jen-MSAR. My mounting point is close to be back of my seat, but the main problem looks to be the angle from my shoulders, which I think is more like 40deg down rather than the max 20 you suggest. Being 6'3" tall (mostly because of a long back) its a real challenge to get the mount point any where near as high as my shoulders, but as I have to put new ones in anyway, I'll see how high I can get them without compromising the strength of the mount. Thanks for the advice.

PS Having spent over £600 on my original hans device, buying a new one just to get the slip-stop system is not even close to being an option.

[Tim Falce]

It's a shame that with the sports version being considerably cheaper than the big boys CF one you then have a couple of possibly essential accessories that add over £100 to the bill.