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Old 12 Jul 2011, 13:51 (Ref:2925577)   #1
ECW Dan Selby
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High Speed F1 Circuit

Hi guys!

Havn't posted a new one in a while so here it is...

This is a brainchild of mine developed from the topic in the F1 forum. My argument is:

Why do we not have another 'old Silverstone'/Osterreichring?

Given the huge advances in safety related technology, I cannot fathom why another genuinely high speed track hasn't been created. I'm going to avoid going in depth about that, because that's all covered in the original topic!

See what you think. Feel free to make changes. I know I havn't put the pits in properly yet, and I know that SBF will ask me to put the pits on the inside of the first corner It's more about the actual layout and possibilities of genuinely being able to give it a shot for F1.

Thanks,

Selby
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Old 12 Jul 2011, 14:20 (Ref:2925593)   #2
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Originally Posted by ECW Dan Selby View Post
Hi guys!

Havn't posted a new one in a while so here it is...

This is a brainchild of mine developed from the topic in the F1 forum. My argument is:

Why do we not have another 'old Silverstone'/Osterreichring?

Given the huge advances in safety related technology, I cannot fathom why another genuinely high speed track hasn't been created. I'm going to avoid going in depth about that, because that's all covered in the original topic!

See what you think. Feel free to make changes. I know I havn't put the pits in properly yet, and I know that SBF will ask me to put the pits on the inside of the first corner It's more about the actual layout and possibilities of genuinely being able to give it a shot for F1.

Thanks,

Selby
I'm going to steal SBF's thunder here....


CHANGE THE SODDING DIRECTION!!! (fixing any vector issues, of course)
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Old 12 Jul 2011, 14:35 (Ref:2925600)   #3
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No vector issues here, mate - did it in Photoshop/Word! lmao Took about 15 minutes

Why change of direction out of interest? Just to make it a little different?

Selby
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Old 12 Jul 2011, 19:16 (Ref:2925728)   #4
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No vector issues here, mate - did it in Photoshop/Word! lmao Took about 15 minutes

Why change of direction out of interest? Just to make it a little different?

Selby
Vetor issues for me are physical, nothing wrong with the image.

As to why I'd change the direction? I think I may just have a thing with anti-clockwise tracks, but I just prefere it like that.

EIT: Also, I'd move the pits to the opposite side entirely to the straight furthest to the right for more paddock room.
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Old 12 Jul 2011, 23:02 (Ref:2925815)   #5
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I'll let the pitlane issue slide for the moment.

My biggest issue is where do you intend to have cars overtake one another?

T1 looks too open to be a real overtaking chance, likewise bottom right, I'm not sure how you'd number it.

The only overtaking chance would come from the curve out from the infield section into the 90 right.

To the argument for fast circuits, you only have to look at Silverstone at the weekend. The only overtaking places were into hard braking areas...T3 Village, T6 Brooklands, T15 Stowe and T16 Vale.

The only really quick overtaking place is Copse, and even then I think we only saw one, and it required "manly bits" to keep the car where it was up the inside.

F1 circuits can be as fast as you like, 1km straights, long sweeping 5th, 6th or 7th gear curves, but it's in the braking zones that overtaking is done...even with DRS and KERS.
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Old 12 Jul 2011, 23:06 (Ref:2925817)   #6
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SBF, Stowe is still a 100+mph corner, so not exactly slow.
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Old 12 Jul 2011, 23:10 (Ref:2925819)   #7
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Yes but it's still hard braking dropping 70-80 mph and 3 or 4 gears.
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Old 12 Jul 2011, 23:17 (Ref:2925822)   #8
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As for Selby's design, I like it!

I think you can set up an overtake into Turn 1, into the right-hander in the lower right, the right-hander on the inbound leg of the infield, and the right at the end of the infield before those bends that bring you out onto the start/finish stretch.

There is plenty of scope for multiple lines and taking advantage of the guy in front if he gets his rhythm wrong. And at a place like Turn 1, as well as some other spots, I'd say an outside overtaking maneuver is entirely possible.

I'm not stuck in a rut believing solely in the current, conventional "wisdom". Anyway, if you look at Spa, for all but 5 corners (out of at least 17 officially numbered), you're above 100mph for the entire lap, yet it's one of the best circuits to actually race on. And I don't think Selby's design is meant to be quite as long as Spa, maybe as long as the Osterreichring, so I think it would work just fine, even for F1.
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Old 13 Jul 2011, 09:32 (Ref:2925923)   #9
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Yeh I think you're coming from the same kind of mindset as me here, Purist.

Thanks very much for the comments, lads. Much appreciated, as ever.

Thing is, have we ever really have a sweeping high speed circuit alá Osterreichring with modern day F1 cars (say, 1994ish onwards)? We havn't. So it's hard to say as to whether it'd work.

But my point is, creating a track like this today, would be incredible. It'd be able to boast all the new facilities and high tech structures that all new tracks have, but actually having a genuinely high speed circuit in the center of it!

People would call it 'the new Osterreichring', simply, because there's been nothing built quite like it.

It'd have all the adequet run-offs, the drivers would find it a challenge, it'd have a bit of elevation (not too much, because I mainly want the grandstand sections elevated so the fans could see most of the track from any grandstand). I can't see why it couldn't happen, and why it wouldn't be an immensely popular facility?

Someone mentioned in the other thread (I think!) that "we've hardly had classics at technical tracks like Hungaroring", which is a fair point.

What's wrong with variety? Besides, it may not go on to produce the most overtakes of the season, but if it's great to watch for the fans at home, the fans at the track, and the drivers are enjoying the challenge, I don't see an issue.

It'd be like Valencia but without all the bad bits

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Old 13 Jul 2011, 10:50 (Ref:2925957)   #10
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It'd be like Valencia but without all the bad bits
Impossible. Valencuia wouldn't exist. It IS a nice circuit to drive around on F1 2010, but I agrwee it's not good for the spectators.
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Old 13 Jul 2011, 10:54 (Ref:2925959)   #11
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Yeh, this coming from a fan of the track

I like it, too. It's just a bad, bad race.

Selby
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Old 13 Jul 2011, 11:58 (Ref:2925975)   #12
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My Attempt

I like it but i would change the direction like others have said. It just looks like it should be anti-clockwise.

I was going to post this in my own thread but i keep getting this message- Query failed: You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near ' score=' at line 3. No idea what that means, can anyone help?

Anyway, i'd thought id have a try of my own. What do you guys think?

3.8mi Clockwise No elevation

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The boss man was fiddling around behind the scenes at the time you were trying to post. That is why there was the SQL error.
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Last edited by ScotsBrutesFan; 13 Jul 2011 at 12:53.
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Old 13 Jul 2011, 12:55 (Ref:2926015)   #13
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That's really nice mate, and probably a more 'F1 realistic' design.

Mine is just pretty balls out and far end of the spectrum, but I just think it's really worth a go as far as the designers go.

Selby
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Old 13 Jul 2011, 12:56 (Ref:2926017)   #14
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I'm going to start making this one tonight. I want to run a full AI race and see how they get on.

Selby
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Old 13 Jul 2011, 12:58 (Ref:2926018)   #15
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In terms of a high speed circuit, I'd like to refer you to my own latest design.
Two very fast Istanbul T10 like corners, flowing esses, open corners onto straights. But still the overtaking areas are into the braking zones.
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Old 14 Jul 2011, 02:31 (Ref:2926323)   #16
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Not to be overly critical but these(even the first one) are kind of complex to be in the mold of Monza, old Silverstone, and the Osterreichring. They seem like what you would get if you were at the end of a development of an older track that had been modernized. I also think that you're ignoring some types of corners because the profile doesn't seem like it would be fast. For instance, the first corner at Imola doesn't look fast, but at the maximum, it feels very fast and it's very rewarding to get it bang on, because you have to carry speed through the whole thing. Les Combes, and Nurburgring and Imola at Magny Cours are two good examples of this as well.


But it's dangerous to think specifically F1 and do this. Especially when you add the racing aspect. I'd think about a series more in-line with CART in the late 90's, or with the old F1, because thinking of the new F1 will hamstring you, and it's not for certain if the changes would even work.
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Old 14 Jul 2011, 07:32 (Ref:2926368)   #17
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I'm more doing this from a 'I'm a billionaire and I want to host the Formula One in my country - but want the fastest circuit on the calendar'.

For once, i'm trying to shove some of that practicality aside for a moment.

This is more about the actual concept. Could something like this not work? With the adequet run off?

Selby
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Old 14 Jul 2011, 13:07 (Ref:2926548)   #18
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only if you buy and tarmac the neighbouring countries as run off
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Old 14 Jul 2011, 15:09 (Ref:2926606)   #19
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lmao Nice one

Well i'm currently designing the track. I'm really going to make an effort to show that it could be done, and i'd be more than happy for anyone here to pick it apart and bring up any issues they have with it in regards to safety.

I'm just still not quite convinced that this couldn't happen

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Old 15 Jul 2011, 17:46 (Ref:2927154)   #20
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I like it but i would change the direction like others have said. It just looks like it should be anti-clockwise.

I was going to post this in my own thread but i keep getting this message- Query failed: You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near ' score=' at line 3. No idea what that means, can anyone help?

Anyway, i'd thought id have a try of my own. What do you guys think?

3.8mi Clockwise No elevation

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The boss man was fiddling around behind the scenes at the time you were trying to post. That is why there was the SQL error.
Its all back to normal now
SpeedingTortoise, that's a great circuit you present us with there. It's your Road America, so to speak. I'd love to try out that track on a simulator.
Yet, it's not a Monza, not an Österreichring and not and ancient Silverstone. It's more of a Spa and an Elkhart Lake, so basically, it's a medium downforce circuit of which there are also not near enough on the F1 schedule.
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Old 15 Jul 2011, 18:23 (Ref:2927164)   #21
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Oh, and since this is a hot topic and I kind of enjoy drawing fast tracks, please let me link to some of my previous efforts from this genre of circuit:

4th of December 2010
29th of January 2011
#2 and #13 from the Doodle Series Part 2 (please scroll to find them)
Yilmiz
#8 from the Doodle Series Part 1
Phuthai
Another Blot
Dental Floss Ring
Krbtrk
ScotsBrutesFan's edit of Mississippi Delta Speedway
Duckham (no, I'm just joking)
Duckburg (the final chicane should really not be there)
ScotsBrutesFan's edit of Camiria
Chouchin
Ulmenberg (click on the link inside for the map)

Please tell me if you like them and if you think they fit the purpose.
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Old 17 Jul 2011, 18:21 (Ref:2927758)   #22
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Not to be overly critical but these(even the first one) are kind of complex to be in the mold of Monza, old Silverstone, and the Osterreichring. They seem like what you would get if you were at the end of a development of an older track that had been modernized. I also think that you're ignoring some types of corners because the profile doesn't seem like it would be fast. For instance, the first corner at Imola doesn't look fast, but at the maximum, it feels very fast and it's very rewarding to get it bang on, because you have to carry speed through the whole thing. Les Combes, and Nurburgring and Imola at Magny Cours are two good examples of this as well.


But it's dangerous to think specifically F1 and do this. Especially when you add the racing aspect. I'd think about a series more in-line with CART in the late 90's, or with the old F1, because thinking of the new F1 will hamstring you, and it's not for certain if the changes would even work.
That's a very good point.

As for me I won't make a design of my own but my wishes for a track like this would simply be something different from every circuit on the (F1) calender today, and yes, I do think it would be worth sacrificing a bit of the overtaking to accomplish this.

There's a few nice medium-downforce circuits like Spa and Suzuka but nothing that forces the teams to race at minimum downforce. I would love to see modern F1-cars on the old Österreichring but maybe something like the old Hockenheim would be better? Instead of the normal mix between high and low-speed corners that makes the cars end up in a medium-low downforce spec, design it fast enough to make a really low-downforce set-up the fastest one. That way you could have a circuit that stands out and still have a couple of slow corners to encourage overtaking.
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Old 18 Jul 2011, 08:12 (Ref:2927973)   #23
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That's a very good point.

As for me I won't make a design of my own but my wishes for a track like this would simply be something different from every circuit on the (F1) calender today, and yes, I do think it would be worth sacrificing a bit of the overtaking to accomplish this.

There's a few nice medium-downforce circuits like Spa and Suzuka but nothing that forces the teams to race at minimum downforce. I would love to see modern F1-cars on the old Österreichring but maybe something like the old Hockenheim would be better? Instead of the normal mix between high and low-speed corners that makes the cars end up in a medium-low downforce spec, design it fast enough to make a really low-downforce set-up the fastest one. That way you could have a circuit that stands out and still have a couple of slow corners to encourage overtaking.
Next thing you know, we'll be racing on ovals...
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Old 18 Jul 2011, 09:59 (Ref:2928010)   #24
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Basically, what i'm (we're?) asking for is something between Spa/Suzaka and an Oval

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Old 18 Jul 2011, 11:21 (Ref:2928036)   #25
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Next thing you know, we'll be racing on ovals...
hehe maybe a re-build AVUS?
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