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Old 7 Jul 2012, 23:46 (Ref:3103572)   #1
NaBUru38
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2012 Honda Indy Toronto

Tomorrow is the Honda Indy Toronto, the 26th edition of the classic race.

Qualifying results:

Round 1 - Group A

1. Simon Pagenaud 59.4684
2. Justin Wilson 59.5046 (+0.0362)
3. Graham Rahal 59.6279 (+0.1595)
4. Helio Castroneves 59.6649 (+0.1965)
5. Takuma Sato 59.9572 (+0.4888)
6. Sebastien Bourdais 59.9597 (+0.4913)
7. Mike Conway 1'00.0718 (+0.6034)
8. Charlie Kimball 1'00.1557 (+0.6873)
9. JR Hildebrand 1'00.4508 (+0.9824)
10. James Jakes 1'00.5440 (+1.0756)
11. Simona de Silvestro 1'00.6709 (+1.2025)
12. Ed Carpenter 1'01.0333 (+1.5649)

Round 1 - Group B

1. Dario Franchitti 59.5274
2. Scott Dixon 59.5724 (+0.0450)
3. Alex Tagliani 59.6144 (+0.0870)
4. Ryan Hunter-Reay 59.6816 (+0.1542)
5. James Hinchcliffe 59.8516 (+0.3242)
6. Will Power 59.8620 (+0.3346)
7. Ryan Briscoe 59.9888 (+0.4614)
8. Oriol Servia 1'00.0004 (+0.4730)
9. Tony Kanaan 1'00.1207 (+0.5933)
10. Rubens Barrichello 1'00.2043 (+0.6769)
11. Josef Newgarden 1'00.2199 (+0.6925)
12. Marco Andretti 1'00.6145 (+1.0871)
13. E.J. Viso 1'02.5280 (+3.0006)

Round 2

1. Justin Wilson 59.0663
2. Scott Dixon 59.1978 (+0.1315)
3. Will Power 59.2829 (+0.2166)
4. Sebastien Bourdais 59.3212 (+0.2549)
5. Alex Tagliani 59.3554 (+0.2891)
6. Dario Franchitti 59.4145 (+0.3482)
7. Ryan Hunter-Reay 59.4829 (+0.4166)
8. Helio Castroneves 59.5476 (+0.4813)
9. James Hinchcliffe 59.5958 (+0.5295)
10. Simon Pagenaud 59.6650 (+0.5987)
11. Takuma Sato 59.8197 (+0.7534)
12. Graham Rahal 59.8966 (+0.8303)

Round 3

1. Dario Franchitti 59.3510
2. Will Power 59.3757 (+0.0247)
3. Justin Wilson 59.4506 (+0.0996)
4. Sebastien Bourdais 59.4721 (+0.1211)
5. Scott Dixon 59.5140 (+0.1630)
6. Alex Tagliani 59.5616 (+0.2106)

Qualifying results:

1. Dario Franchitti (Ganassi)
2. Will Power (Penske)
3. Justin Wilson (Dale Coyne)
4. Sebastien Bourdais (Dragon)
5. Scott Dixon (Ganassi)
6. Alex Tagliani (Herta)
7. Ryan Hunter-Reay (Andretti)
8. Helio Castroneves (Penske)
9. James Hinchcliffe (Andretti)
10. Simon Pagenaud (Schmidt)
11. Takuma Sato (Rahal)
12. Graham Rahal (Ganassi)
13. Mike Conway (Foyt)
14. Ryan Briscoe (Penske)
15. Charlie Kimball (Ganassi)
16. Oriol Servia (Panther/Dreyer & Reinbold)
17. JR Hildebrand (Panther)
18. Tony Kanaan (KV)
19. James Jakes (Dale Coyne)
20. Rubens Barrichello (KV)
21. Simona de Silvestro (HVM)
22. Josef Newgarden (Fisher)
23. Ed Carpenter (Carpente)
24. Marco Andretti (Andretti)
25. E.J. Viso (KV Racing)

The front row is nor surprise. But the Seabass is back! Pagenaud and Tagliani are close too. There's lots of French accent in Ontario this year.

Hinchcliffe didn't do bad, but has a 10-place penalty for changing the engine.

Briscoe, ServiÃ* and Kanaan will have a tough day tomorrow.
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Old 8 Jul 2012, 12:35 (Ref:3103721)   #2
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icemachine should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridicemachine should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Going to have to be satisfied with watching this one online. Thought I had the day free, but a customer issue has got us working all weekned
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Old 8 Jul 2012, 17:59 (Ref:3103846)   #3
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I missed quite a bit of the race because the World Clock doesn't allow for daylight saving.
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Old 8 Jul 2012, 18:06 (Ref:3103852)   #4
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bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!
That was bad luck for Power, losing part of the front wing and getting a puncture. Nasty cheap DW12.
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Old 8 Jul 2012, 18:26 (Ref:3103865)   #5
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bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Newgarden completely messed that up.
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Old 8 Jul 2012, 18:34 (Ref:3103869)   #6
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FordCosworthPanoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridFordCosworthPanoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridFordCosworthPanoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Good race, embarrassing finish.
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Old 8 Jul 2012, 18:35 (Ref:3103870)   #7
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Speedblood should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSpeedblood should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
That went crazy at the end! Good race up til then
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Old 8 Jul 2012, 18:36 (Ref:3103872)   #8
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bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Congrats to RHR. Bad luck for Power and really bad luck for Rubens. He was running 5th up until the restart. At least Sato finished in one piece.
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Old 8 Jul 2012, 18:45 (Ref:3103883)   #9
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icemachine should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridicemachine should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Pagenaud threw a bit of a block so I wouldn't entirely lay it on Newgarden, but definitely a rookie move, too late really, should have waited one more lap

Kimball definitely had the move of the race to go 4th to 2nd at turn 3 during the Newgarden/Pagenaud battle
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Old 8 Jul 2012, 19:09 (Ref:3103895)   #10
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I tried to follow the race online. But I couldn't find a decent streaming, so I barely watched anything. What a chaos!

I wouldn't like the green-white-chechered rule. I don't like races getting extended beyond the scheduled distance / time.
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Old 8 Jul 2012, 19:56 (Ref:3103910)   #11
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Originally Posted by NaBUru38 View Post
I tried to follow the race online. But I couldn't find a decent streaming, so I barely watched anything. What a chaos!

I wouldn't like the green-white-chechered rule. I don't like races getting extended beyond the scheduled distance / time.
Try this next time. http://freetvall.com/videos and click on United States.
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Old 8 Jul 2012, 20:22 (Ref:3103919)   #12
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No green-yellow-checked thingamiggjig please. Indycar haven't been bad at keeping out the NASCAR gimmicks. Stop the race if you need a green flag finish.

I thought it was a good race. Pity about Bourdais, Pagenaud, Power and Newgarden. I would've liked to have seen Franchitti and Power at it. Great race from Kimball and of course RHR.
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Old 9 Jul 2012, 10:10 (Ref:3104102)   #13
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Good race, shame about the finish.

The TV networks really need to learn how to broadcast races. It was almost impossible to follow at times. Also, whenever a situation or move was brewing, the director would cut away just in time...

It makes you realise how spoiled we are with F1 coverage. Everything is just there on your lap making it possible for even a casual fan to read a race. That is what Indycar desperately needs.
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Old 9 Jul 2012, 12:09 (Ref:3104155)   #14
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Good race, shame about the finish.

The TV networks really need to learn how to broadcast races. It was almost impossible to follow at times. Also, whenever a situation or move was brewing, the director would cut away just in time...

It makes you realise how spoiled we are with F1 coverage. Everything is just there on your lap making it possible for even a casual fan to read a race. That is what Indycar desperately needs.
They must be the ESPN NASCAR production crew who cover that race. They don't know how to cover roadcourses. Get in some ALMS people, I say.

There was numerous passes not down to pitstops that were missed.
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Old 9 Jul 2012, 12:50 (Ref:3104174)   #15
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FordCosworthPanoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridFordCosworthPanoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridFordCosworthPanoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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They must be the ESPN NASCAR production crew who cover that race. They don't know how to cover roadcourses. Get in some ALMS people, I say.

There was numerous passes not down to pitstops that were missed.
The ALMS race coverage at LRP was even worse, we missed spins, incidents, crtical overtaking and they had two ultra-annoying commentators in the ESPN2 booth including one former Corvette driver and current Corvette shill that sounds like Porky Pig. One of the key moments of the race, the then-leading Dyson car going two laps down due to a puncture was not only missed, but never talked about it again throughout the broadcast. On a major network it made the ALMS look like an amateur club racing series.
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Old 9 Jul 2012, 13:15 (Ref:3104187)   #16
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The ALMS race coverage at LRP was even worse, we missed spins, incidents, crtical overtaking and they had two ultra-annoying commentators in the ESPN2 booth including one former Corvette driver and current Corvette shill that sounds like Porky Pig. One of the key moments of the race, the then-leading Dyson car going two laps down due to a puncture was not only missed, but never talked about it again throughout the broadcast. On a major network it made the ALMS look like an amateur club racing series.
I saw most of that race on the international feed and I was unsure whether the international stream was the same pictures as the ESPN one. There seemed to be an undue focus on onboard shots. Technical problems towards the end, meant I sought out ESPN Canada, who in their wisdom ran adverts in the climax of the event with only a few laps to go. When they came back under yellows their analysis of the yellow flag incident was anything between sleepy and nonexistent. The commentators seemed like they where commentating from a couch in their living room rather than a studio let alone on-site. I did get the benefit of John Hindaugh and particular Jeremy Shaw with the international commentary and as ever they where top-notch aside from untimely technical problems.

O.K, maybe not ALMS. Maybe the ITV people in England. Someone. I mean they used to know how broadcast these roadcourses.
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Old 9 Jul 2012, 13:16 (Ref:3104188)   #17
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Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz View Post
The ALMS race coverage at LRP was even worse, we missed spins, incidents, crtical overtaking and they had two ultra-annoying commentators in the ESPN2 booth including one former Corvette driver and current Corvette shill that sounds like Porky Pig. One of the key moments of the race, the then-leading Dyson car going two laps down due to a puncture was not only missed, but never talked about it again throughout the broadcast. On a major network it made the ALMS look like an amateur club racing series.
any links to the replay of the race? I tried ESPN 3 but apparently my cable provider is not on the list of supported networks.
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Old 9 Jul 2012, 13:29 (Ref:3104197)   #18
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FordCosworthPanoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridFordCosworthPanoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridFordCosworthPanoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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any links to the replay of the race? I tried ESPN 3 but apparently my cable provider is not on the list of supported networks.
No sorry, not in the US so no ESPN3 and nobody even bothered to upload anything to Youtube, not even highlights or start/finish, guess that shows the current interest level in that series.
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Old 9 Jul 2012, 14:54 (Ref:3104228)   #19
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nobody even bothered to upload anything to Youtube, not even highlights or start/finish, guess that shows the current interest level in that series.
Well, this was uploaded 19 hours ago...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkhHZ-4LvGs
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Old 9 Jul 2012, 15:03 (Ref:3104237)   #20
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Well, this was uploaded 19 hours ago...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkhHZ-4LvGs
Thought he was talking about the ALMS race which currently has no uploads, plenty of Indycar interest and uploads on Youtube if that was the race he wanted to see. Indycar Toronto full race should be posted soon by independent channels.
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Old 9 Jul 2012, 19:16 (Ref:3104314)   #21
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Thought he was talking about the ALMS race which currently has no uploads.
yea since ALMS was mentioned I asked about the video... didn't mean to hijack the thread.


I watched the race from Pit-in, just wanted to see some footage from the rest of the track
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Old 10 Jul 2012, 06:28 (Ref:3104465)   #22
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Thought he was talking about the ALMS race which currently has no uploads, plenty of Indycar interest and uploads on Youtube if that was the race he wanted to see. Indycar Toronto full race should be posted soon by independent channels.
And on the IndyCar YouTube page. The ALMS does seem to take longer than necessary to upload the race onto their website for rebroadcasts. I won't post any links here, but there are at least two YouTubers who post ALMS races. Not sure if they have LRP up yet.

Keeping us off topic for a moment, the broadcast technology was buggered all weekend. I was initially watching the race on the stream, but switched to TV (at about the time TV was coming on) because my stream was beginning to enter a permanent state of buffering. Pretty embarrassing that they missed some crucial events in the race, but this has been the case since before the ALMS took over producing their own content and on the Grand-Am side things aren't any better.

As far as the Honda Indy goes, the race was highly entertaining. I remarked early on in the race "Wow, RHR is third, no way he wins three in a row, so I won't bother getting my hopes up!" Good things aren't supposed to happen in the AOWR post-1995, but alas, things are really good in between the white lines. Exciting races, an intriguing championship battle, and finally a personality that I really identify with. Miller's SPEED.com story "Hunter-Reay's finally getting his due" is on point from how I look at things. He was somebody I immediately rooted for in Champ Car and thought he could be the next Jimmy Vasser (not saying that his successes are on Jimmy's level). It is about time that he starts winning races consistently and vying for the title.

RHR could be the first really great American driver since Al Jr., Michael, Jimmy and Herta faded out. Sam Hornish Jr. was a great IRL driver and a deserving 500 Champion and a deserving three-time series champ but there is no denying that even his 2006 title was aided by a lack of schedule diversity and real need to show an ability to really shoe a race car. Furthermore, he jumped ship right when I started caring about guys from the IRL side, I only watched one full season with Hornish competing wherein he had a second at Watkins Glen. His invisibility in NASCAR also furthers my bias against him.

But take what I say about Hornish with a grain of salt. He was in a series I didn't watch regularly and am generally biased against for the slow, high-downforce formula, and all-oval schedule. Perhaps Hornish is another victim of his era.

With that digression done, go RHR! I really want to see him succeed and (knock on wood) win the championship.

Chris
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Old 10 Jul 2012, 12:36 (Ref:3104610)   #23
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Toronto IndyCar postscript

by Stephen Cox
Monday, July 09, 2012


After rediscovering authentic competition via deregulation at Iowa Speedway last month, the Honda Indy Toronto event showed just how far Indycar's vastly over-regulated series has yet to go.
Every new effort to regulate away their problems only leads to more.

Extreme grip from whopping big tires and wing-induced downforce guarantees that the racing groove will be very narrow, which limits passing. Spec chassis assure that all cars are equally incapable of outrunning each other or providing any real variety to the field.

Limited engine options and artificially low horsepower bar independent engine builders from the series, drive up the price of participation and underpower the cars. Honestly, 600-700 horsepower really isn't much. Any racecar worth the name was making 900 horsepower back in 1973.

How on earth can they charge nearly a million dollars a year to lease an engine that barely makes 700 horses and lasts less than two thousand miles? For crying out loud, pick up a small block Chevy on EBay. You could build a better engine than that in your garage. For eight grand. In a weekend.

Combine all this with a street course that has no elevation change and no signature straightaway and the racing just isn't very good.

The series attempts to regulate away these problems, not realizing that over-regulation wrought them in the first place.

In order to promote better racing, the series regulates a new tire: the “red” tire. The “reds” are supposed to be stickier and faster than the “black” tires. Sometimes they are not. Since their life is shorter, the motivation to use them is lacking.

Enter a new regulation. The series mandates that every team must use one set of “reds” during each event whether they want to or not. While the deep thinkers among us ponder why the series must mandate the use of a tire that is truly faster, competition on the track remains stagnant.

Quick... someone fix that with a new regulation. This time it's the dreaded return of the “push to pass” button, which boosts horsepower for a few seconds in the hopes of creating a few more passes during the race. Yet the Honda Indy Toronto is still a lackluster event.
Every new regulation brings a host of unintended consequences, yet the only method seriously considered to deal with them is even more regulation, which in turn brings a fresh pile of new unintended consequences.

The “push to pass” button is a naked admission that all the mandated chassis, mandated tires and regulated engines have resulted in a race where nobody can pass. The “push to pass” button is the final white flag of surrender from a series whose chronic addiction to NASCAR-like regulatory mandates has killed ingenuity.

One simple act of deregulation at Iowa Speedway (reducing downforce) resulted in one of the finest open wheel oval races on American soil in years. It was universally applauded by fans, teams, the media and especially the drivers, who raved about it for a week.

The sooner IndyCar remembers its own success at Iowa, the sooner anticlimactic races like Toronto will be in the rear view mirror.

Highlights were few and far between at Toronto last weekend, but let’s look at the glass as half full and try to find a few.

Charlie Kimball was impressive all day. Most of the attention centered on his later laps, but those who were watching his duel with Rubens Barrichello for 7th position midway through the race really saw what the kid has. Consider for a moment how intimidating it must be for a youngster like Kimball to be wheel-to-wheel with a Formula 1 legend. It was a good on-track battle in a race that offered few.

Tony Kanaan’s charge from 17th to 4th looks good on paper, but most of it was achieved by avoiding other people’s wrecks. The same goes for Oriol Servia, who took advantage of a silly, late-race pileup to score a top five finish with a 10th place car.

James Jakes was the BFS of the day (Big Freaking Stud), driving from 24th to 8th with virtually no one taking notice.

But honestly, I just can’t bring myself to rave about this race or the events thereof because it so closely resembled the NASCAR parades we’ve seen for ten years.

Iowa and Indianapolis were the highlights of the 2012 season so far. They represent everything that IndyCar has done right. Toronto is a glaring reminder of everything they’ve done wrong.

Let’s hope Randy is paying attention.
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Old 10 Jul 2012, 14:14 (Ref:3104657)   #24
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icemachine should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridicemachine should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Q&A with BB on Toronto officiating - Even if you don't agree with all his decisions, it's refreshing to hear the reasoning behind them

http://www.racer.com/qa-beaux-barfie...rticle/249520/
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Old 10 Jul 2012, 15:29 (Ref:3104685)   #25
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FordCosworthPanoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridFordCosworthPanoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridFordCosworthPanoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
0.9 Overnight Rating on ABC, no NASCAR, NFL, Tiger Woods, oh wait, it was F1's fault. NASCAR with it's 3.8 rating at Daytona on TNT is doomed, Indycar has momentum!

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