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Old 6 Feb 2015, 21:05 (Ref:3502071)   #26
Mike Bell
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Just to clarify / correct my last post, the rule more exactly states that cars of period F (01/01/62) onwards can use 'the original seats', but if they are changed, it must be for FIA homologated (lifed) items. For earlier cars (Pre '62) it is recommended, but not compulsory.

So in theory you can change an original seat in a 1959 car for a non lifed modern one, but not do same with a 1965 car. I think any vagueness in the past was in the definition of 'original seats'- did it mean only those fitted from new by the manufacturer, or include aftermarket but period as well.......

I need a drink.

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Old 7 Feb 2015, 17:51 (Ref:3502406)   #27
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As usual the BB is as clear as mud. my seat does not have any date on it unlike helmet.
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Old 7 Feb 2015, 19:30 (Ref:3502473)   #28
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As usual the BB is as clear as mud. my seat does not have any date on it unlike helmet.
The Blue Book is published by our National Association and covers national regs. The lifing of seats is for for events covered by FIA regulations, and you have to read their publications, particularly Appendix K........
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Old 7 Feb 2015, 23:34 (Ref:3502564)   #29
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This is nothing new. When we raced FISC Pieter registered all our cars 1959-62 for this very reason.
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Old 8 Feb 2015, 07:50 (Ref:3502755)   #30
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This is nothing new. When we raced FISC Pieter registered all our cars 1959-62 for this very reason.
Which just goes to show that a clued up and customer focused organiser can sometimes make the difference!
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Old 8 Feb 2015, 11:00 (Ref:3502841)   #31
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So for race events in the UK will I need a new seat do you think?
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Old 8 Feb 2015, 12:28 (Ref:3502864)   #32
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So for race events in the UK will I need a new seat do you think?
Depends- on whether the race or series is being run under FIA durisdiction. That's a question to ask the organisers. The event / series regs will say if they are 'as Appendix K' or something similar. The requirement for an HTP, if stated, is a clue as well!

Then, your current seat. If it is original MGB, then in theory OK for all events, subject to it passing scrutineering for other safety stuff. If it is a more modern seat then depends if FIA event or not. If it is, and seat isn't homologated plus in date then my guess not acceptable.....
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Old 8 Feb 2015, 20:15 (Ref:3503008)   #33
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Not necessarily Mike; I dropped 2 extinguishers into a well-known place at Castle Combe for check & recertification - they refused to do one of them as it isn't a Lifeline one, which is all they will touch apparently.
For a service to be valid it has to have a service label from the original manufacturer only obtainable by their authorised service agents, so regardless of competency and willingness if your supplier is not an approved service agent of the manufacturer of your fire system and cannot access the service parts and obtain the service label then they will be unable to give your extinguisher a valid service - not their fault. Most ectinguisher manufacturers will only appoint a company as a service agent if they are stocking distributors of their fire systems and smaller distributors can only usually justify stocking a single range, hence can only service the extinguishers they stock.
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Old 8 Feb 2015, 20:33 (Ref:3503013)   #34
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For a service to be valid it has to have a service label from the original manufacturer only obtainable by their authorised service agents, so regardless of competency and willingness if your supplier is not an approved service agent of the manufacturer of your fire system and cannot access the service parts and obtain the service label then they will be unable to give your extinguisher a valid service - not their fault. Most ectinguisher manufacturers will only appoint a company as a service agent if they are stocking distributors of their fire systems and smaller distributors can only usually justify stocking a single range, hence can only service the extinguishers they stock.
BB K3 does not appear to support this; all I can see is:
"It is recommended that all extinguishers are serviced in accordance with the manufacturers guidelines, or every 24 months, whichever is sooner."

Am I missing something?
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Old 8 Feb 2015, 20:49 (Ref:3503019)   #35
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BB K3 does not appear to support this; all I can see is:
"It is recommended that all extinguishers are serviced in accordance with the manufacturers guidelines, or every 24 months, whichever is sooner."

Am I missing something?
No you’re not missing anything; firstly you will also note that servicing is only recommended, crazy particularly considering the reduction in efficacy of over age AFFF extinguishants. But if you are going to have it serviced on the basis of the recommendation then the manufacturer's guidelines will generally state something along the lines that "Our extinguishers shall be serviced by our approved service agents using procedures, components and extinguishant supplied by us and validated by our own service label"
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Old 8 Feb 2015, 21:41 (Ref:3503034)   #36
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No you’re not missing anything; firstly you will also note that servicing is only recommended, crazy particularly considering the reduction in efficacy of over age AFFF extinguishants. But if you are going to have it serviced on the basis of the recommendation then the manufacturer's guidelines will generally state something along the lines that "Our extinguishers shall be serviced by our approved service agents using procedures, components and extinguishant supplied by us and validated by our own service label"
Got it, thanks. So instead of using a local business & domestic extinguisher company I need not bother at all. Keeps me legal and saves money, that's what I call a win-win. :-)
(until the rules are changed again).
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Old 8 Feb 2015, 22:12 (Ref:3503053)   #37
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Got it, thanks. So instead of using a local business & domestic extinguisher company I need not bother at all. Keeps me legal and saves money, that's what I call a win-win. :-)
(until the rules are changed again).
I think that by virtue of you not having had your extinguishers serviced on a regular basis that you may well be giving your insurer a reason to render your fire insurance null and void. When I was running our factory I recall that our insurers would always check random fire safety equipment, as would Health and Safety Inspectors on their annual visits.

I am glad to say that we always passed the fire protection side of H & SI inspections, even though we had to comply with some absolutely stupid instructions. One of the most stupid was that we had to have fire extinguishers inside our brick built ink store where we stored up to 2000 gallons of industrial methylated spirit, but we did not have to have any just outside the store, or anywhere in the vicinity. It just defies logic that anybody with even half a brain would go inside that store to pick up an extinguisher and try to fight a fire. Anybody with any sense would get as far away as possible.
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Old 8 Feb 2015, 23:23 (Ref:3503083)   #38
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Fair point in general, although usually my cars are not kept at home and I cover my own risks on them (as they're cheap MGs).
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Old 9 Feb 2015, 06:41 (Ref:3503172)   #39
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Cheap till you rebuild one.Though the "service"was someone checking to see if the contents dial was in the green sector?
All we ever had done before with a local extinguisher rep.
He did try to sell new one's for the workshop though, used to get told"but we never use them" by the manager!!!!!!
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Old 9 Feb 2015, 07:02 (Ref:3503177)   #40
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I've had had plumbed in type extinguishers 'serviced' by a local industrial specialist, and they have attached their own company sticker. This has satisfied scrutineers, so..........

And going back to lifing, don't forget that some extinguisher bottles are lifed as well by the manufacturers. I've had a couple where had to pay for a new one when sent back for service.
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Old 9 Feb 2015, 11:12 (Ref:3503264)   #41
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JasperClan should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridJasperClan should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I've had extinguishers serviced by a local company with no problems. Also had one serviced in the paddock at Nuerburgring by a team recommended by the scrutineer!

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Old 9 Feb 2015, 12:52 (Ref:3503283)   #42
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
See why its sooooo nice over here.
Seriously though, DMSB, FIA Scrutineers, Organising clubs simply could not be more helpful and you never get the feeling that you have just been told what they think you want to hear.
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Old 9 Feb 2015, 13:03 (Ref:3503287)   #43
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Couldn't agree more. Same team straightened a front wishbone for me and when we went to fit it noticed it was straighter than the other one. Took that back to them and they straightened that as well. Total cost a couple of beers. I believe the team owner died a couple of years ago and was well known for helping people out.

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Old 9 Feb 2015, 13:41 (Ref:3503295)   #44
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I had my extinguishers serviced by the same people that did my workshop ones, mind you the type that we have to use now you might as well not bother to have them done as they are absolute rubbish at putting anything out !
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Old 9 Feb 2015, 15:50 (Ref:3503313)   #45
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mind you the type that we have to use now you might as well not bother to have them done as they are absolute rubbish at putting anything out !
Yep - the ones in the car just get your feet wet and achieve little else. The ones in our office we're not allowed to use as we haven't been trained how to use them
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Old 9 Feb 2015, 18:39 (Ref:3503356)   #46
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Got it, thanks. So instead of using a local business & domestic extinguisher company I need not bother at all. Keeps me legal and saves money, that's what I call a win-win. :-)
(until the rules are changed again).
From the perspective of saving the service cost agreed, maybe not so great should you ever be unlucky enough to have to use it. A lot of the commercial extinguisher companies simply weigh the bottle to ensure it still contains the requisite amount of extinguishant and check the pressure gauge, a motorsport manufacturer approved service of an AFFF extinguisher involves replacing the extinguishant a visual internal inspection of the bottle, replacing the rubber o-rings and re-pressurising.
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Old 9 Feb 2015, 22:05 (Ref:3503449)   #47
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Go to FEV near Littlehampton. They will empty the existing foam and refill from scratch. I was rather taken aback by the goo that came out of one of mine after 4 years since last service; next to useless in case of a real emergency I suspect. They will do other mechanical ones as well as their own and no 2 year limit as with some others.

I am now in the process of moving all the cars over to gas.
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Old 10 Feb 2015, 08:39 (Ref:3503577)   #48
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do you have a link for them ? thats near me.
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Old 10 Feb 2015, 08:45 (Ref:3503582)   #49
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do you have a link for them ? thats near me.
http://www.f-e-v.co.uk/contact/
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Old 10 Feb 2015, 10:21 (Ref:3503613)   #50
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BB K3 does not appear to support this; all I can see is:
"It is recommended that all extinguishers are serviced in accordance with the manufacturers guidelines, or every 24 months, whichever is sooner."

Am I missing something?

In addition if anyone's going to Spa or anywhere that FIA regulations apply then please find attached the relevant section from the FIA regulations detailing servicing requirements. Refer article 5 on servicing.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Pages from FIA_Standard_Extinguisher.pdf (20.3 KB, 13 views)
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