2019 TCR Australia Silly Season

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by mayhem

Word around the traps is Boost might be more than just a sponsor of the Supercar team, which makes me think the TCR deal is where GRM will ultimately land.

GRM have enough other stuff going on that losing the Supercar team wouldn't have them scrambling to find work for other people to do as some teams would.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Mixer

GRM have enough other stuff going on that losing the Supercar team wouldn't have them scrambling to find work for other people to do as some teams would.

What is the impact of all these other racing series and engineering projects on the competitiveness of the Supercar operation?

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

What is the impact of all these other racing series and engineering projects on the competitiveness of the Supercar operation?

Since Volvo's exit its been mid-pack at best. With experienced drivers I think it could be further up than it is now.

[Mixer]

Btw for those that thought I was stupid for questioning Lynk and Co's relationship with Cyan Racing in WTCR:
https://www.touringcartimes.com/2019...uring-car-cup/

Cyan Racing has 4 cars, none are planned to be built or offered to anybody else for WTCR or any other series.

“I think everyone can see Lynk & Co is a full manufacturer programme. I don’t need to comment, as the facts are there.

Hyundai threatening to pull out of WTCR over it...

[Umai Naa]

Originally Posted by Mixer

GRM look to be getting into development of the underdone Renault TCR car:
https://autoaction.com.au/2019/06/24...tyYkbra-i64W2k

Vukovic and GRM may wish to get this in motion, with 3 of the 5 Meganes in active competition sustaining some degree of crash damage this weekend.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Btw for those that thought I was stupid for questioning Lynk and Co's relationship with Cyan Racing in WTCR:

https://www.touringcartimes.com/2019...uring-car-cup/



Cyan Racing has 4 cars, none are planned to be built or offered to anybody else for WTCR or any other series.







Hyundai threatening to pull out of WTCR over it...

Ah Lynk and Co the Cadillac of TCR

[one five five]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Btw for those that thought I was stupid for questioning Lynk and Co's relationship with Cyan Racing in WTCR:
https://www.touringcartimes.com/2019...uring-car-cup/

Cyan Racing has 4 cars, none are planned to be built or offered to anybody else for WTCR or any other series.



Hyundai threatening to pull out of WTCR over it...

Hyundai's problem from that article seems to be more than just with Cyan or Lynk & Co, but with WTCR and its effect of global BoP in general

Ironic part being that Cyan Racing last year effectively ran the WTCR winning YMR Hyundai's.......maybe some sour grapes on Hyundai's part that Cyan went back to Geely this year?

[Petoli]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Btw for those that thought I was stupid for questioning Lynk and Co's relationship with Cyan Racing in WTCR:
https://www.touringcartimes.com/2019...uring-car-cup/

Cyan Racing has 4 cars, none are planned to be built or offered to anybody else for WTCR or any other series.



Hyundai threatening to pull out of WTCR over it...

Execept under TCR Regulations they have to build and supply cars to customers

From the TCR Regulations

"For certification the minimum race car production will be 10 units in 12 consecutive months starting with the date of the
application. After the certification the cars have to be offered on the market with maximum 3 months delivery time"

https://www.touringcartimes.com/2019...olvement-wtcr/

Bit more detail about Lynk and Co

[Mixer]

Reading from that article it seems clear they have no intention of complying with the 3 month rule.

This does seem like it is in contravention of the rules, but I guess plenty of other manufacturers never delivered cars either.

Either way I can't see the organisers taking any action, they need the Chinese with their money, stars and 4 cars.

[mayhem]

Very interesting that ARG, the mob that run the TCR series have just taken over management rights of the TCM series. I wonder how this effects the relationship between TCR/TCM and Supercars going forward?
CLICK HERE

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by mayhem

Very interesting that ARG, the mob that run the TCR series have just taken over management rights of the TCM series. I wonder how this effects the relationship between TCR/TCM and Supercars going forward?

Could give them more leverage I guess.

Having TCR and TCM on the undercard for Supercars events would be great, but I really don't know if that's what TCR wants.

Going out on their own with TCR & TCM as a double-header starts to get interesting?

Given how much money these guys have tipped into racing over the last 10 years, it isn't too surprising to see them with a vehicle like ARG now.

[HDTVKSS]

TCR, TCM, GT3 and S5000 sounds like a pretty damn decent weekend of racing to me....

[twinwebbers]

Originally Posted by HDTVKSS

TCR, TCM, GT3 and S5000 sounds like a pretty damn decent weekend of racing to me....

You're telling me....

Perhaps in the not too distant future there are commodores and falcons racing in TCM that look at lot like v8 supercars. After all the level of engineering in TCM these days isn't far off the first v8 supercars. Then what happens?

[chavez]

Originally Posted by HDTVKSS

TCR, TCM, GT3 and S5000 sounds like a pretty damn decent weekend of racing to me....

I agree, but is it a sustainable model?

History suggests otherwise.

[HDTVKSS]

Originally Posted by chavez

I agree, but is it a sustainable model?

History suggests otherwise.

It could also be argued that the supercars model is not sustainable either for much longer...

TCR as the main draw with supports. TCM attracts the V8 crowd to the track, GT3 attracts their dynamic. S5000 we haven't seen anything like it for a long time. I can see it working.

[mayhem]

All comes down to grid size and quality IMO. TCM are relatively healthy, TCR look similar. GT3 is in all sorts in Australia. And I wonder who and how many will fork out cash for a niche series like S5000. Happy to be wrong on that one though.

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Could give them more leverage I guess.

Having TCR and TCM on the undercard for Supercars events would be great, but I really don't know if that's what TCR wants.

Going out on their own with TCR & TCM as a double-header starts to get interesting?

Given how much money these guys have tipped into racing over the last 10 years, it isn't too surprising to see them with a vehicle like ARG now.

Hi Mixer,

Lets not forget that the principle shareholder of both ARG and PAYCE, Mr Boyd, now effectively owns TCM and through his Company PAYCE, just happens to be the main sponsor of the Porsche GT3 Series.

IMO, Supercars have a lot to lose if they pick a fight with Mr Boyd.

Cheers,

Mark.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

Hi Mixer,

Lets not forget that the principle shareholder of both ARG and PAYCE, Mr Boyd, now effectively owns TCM and through his Company PAYCE, just happens to be the main sponsor of the Porsche GT3 Series.

IMO, Supercars have a lot to lose if they pick a fight with Mr Boyd.

Cheers,

Mark.

I don't believe that Supercars are trying to pick a fight with Mr Boyd at all - in fact the relationship has been good, however IF issues started to show up, the following should be remembered:

1. Whilst Porsche wouldn't want to lose the main sponsor of the series, there is a contract in place between Porsche and Supercars and given the choice between breaking that contract, leaving the Supercars support program or keeping the sponsor and racing elsewhere, Porsche would be most likely to stay with Supercars and go looking for a new sponsor - not least due to commitments made to GT3 Cup competitors about where races will be held.

2. Supercars has already said that TCR is a possible support for them next year and it MAY be that TCR really needs the larger crowd base at Supercar events to jump itself forward from the current "propped up financially by the series owner" model it is running on. Not being negative, would like to see it prosper but current funding model is only sustainable for so long.

3. TCM is a good support and Supercars wouldn't want to lose it but if that happened, there are other alternatives that could be slotted in.

4. S5000 remains to be seen whether or not it is "real" so a little too early to call.

5. Mr Boyd etc need only to look at how it went for Mr Palmer back in the noughties when he headed off to do his own thing and also at the current Shannons series commercial outcomes. It's possible to lose money or break even or have a small profit out of running such a series but a solid return has proved elusive and I would expect that it would continue to be elusive. Depends on how much risk Mr Boyd etc are prepared to take on over an extended period of time I guess.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Tourer

5. Mr Boyd etc need only to look at how it went for Mr Palmer back in the noughties when he headed off to do his own thing and also at the current Shannons series commercial outcomes. It's possible to lose money or break even or have a small profit out of running such a series but a solid return has proved elusive and I would expect that it would continue to be elusive. Depends on how much risk Mr Boyd etc are prepared to take on over an extended period of time I guess.

I'd hate to count up the money these individuals have spent in the sport in the last 10 years.

I'd suggest between Wilson and Payce there's at least $10m, and I can't see ARG having spent less than $5m.

They are Not Screwing Around.

[Tourer]

Agree Mixer - although whether or not TCR or other series are branded with Payce or other brands and therefore the tax offset benefit for the people behind those brands remains to be seen.

Not saying that they don't have deep enough pockets and not saying that they aren't committed but it's not an easy road. The real killer for Mr Palmer's series back in the day was the 24 hour at Bathurst & whilst that was even more expensive than normal due to lighting etc, with TCR looking at doing a Bathurst event, there are parallels with Mr Palmer's experience IF a separate series gets set up.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Agree Mixer - although whether or not TCR or other series are branded with Payce or other brands and therefore the tax offset benefit for the people behind those brands remains to be seen.

It doesn't matter what brand is where, if you set up ARG Pty Ltd or a trust structure more likely, and you put more into it than it makes, you have a tax benefit and you get your train set to play with too.

TCR has the potential to be successful, it has definite consumer appeal, token manufacturer involvement, reasonable costs (although that is becoming an issue), large variety of cars & plentiful supply.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by Mixer

It doesn't matter what brand is where, if you set up ARG Pty Ltd or a trust structure more likely, and you put more into it than it makes, you have a tax benefit and you get your train set to play with too.

TCR has the potential to be successful, it has definite consumer appeal, token manufacturer involvement, reasonable costs (although that is becoming an issue), large variety of cars & plentiful supply.

True re how it is set up but if branded is simply a marketing cost at tax time to be offset against the branded company's (substantial) earnings & reduce tax. When part of a lower-income regime then it still works but in a different way but generally not as beneficial.

Agree with potential for TCR, big question is whether that potential is better being explored as part of the Supercars program (as both TCR and Supercars have indicated a preference for that before now) or as a separate series, which I don't believe has been suggested that strongly up until now except in this thread as a thought on what might happen.

[Axeman444]

In one aspect, I feel the TCR will struggle to grow in eyeballs and associated revenue to match the $ tipped in, if it stays purely on the Shannons bill, as there is not the undercard strength required. However, being at the SMP round, it was a really refreshing (wind was an easterly ) to be able to watch a spectacle of that calibre and spread of driver names/backgrounds and a large field of different car types, without the size of crowds and accompanying parking and access issues associated with a Supercars meeting.

Attending a Supercars meeting with Main Game/S2/SUtes/Porsche, all rear wheel drive, does get a little monotonous. Put some FWD racing in there with some different driving attitudes/lines could strengthen the meeting

[champcarman]

Be interesting to see what happens with TCM now, will they move exclusively to the Shannons Rounds or a combination of the two programs? Will ARG continue expansion to include MORE CATEGORIES and a range of formats for the various categories?

[HDTVKSS]

If TCR can pull off a somewhat decent FTA TV deal, esp with TCM on the bill, its going to be a game-changer.... and id say this is what has V8SC worried.

the overheads for TCR are much smaller, they are not hamstrung by having to pay off the teams as much as a V8SC at this stage. the commercial options are much wider, esp if the main target is getting eyes on screens rather than collecting cash to hand back to teams....

in regards to Supercars wanting TCR for a support category, Also Supercars: no you cant run with us at the ADL 500. seems legit.