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Old 14 May 2018, 10:16 (Ref:3822294)   #5596
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Iím sure theyíd find a reason. Although to be fair the current power units arenít really necessary in F1. LMP1 is probably the fine the way it is and so is LMP2
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Old 14 May 2018, 15:54 (Ref:3822351)   #5597
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By the time the new rules for lmp1 are here so will new rules on f1 engines. No more ers-h and supposedly more kers. If they do keep it cheap then it might be a good customer engine for lmp1.
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Old 14 May 2018, 16:07 (Ref:3822353)   #5598
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It all sounds great but "cheap" for F1 is still astronomical. The target for the new F1 engine cost is around $12m - $14m to sell to a privateer. The engine alone is several times more expensive than the entire budget for a privateer LMP1 team.

Toto Wolff: "On the other side we have found an agreement with the FIA to reduce the prices to all engine customers over the next years to levels that are the lowest ever in F1.

"I think if you get this kind of engine at prices like $12-14m, which is what we're trying to achieve, I have no understanding for somebody that claims the engines are too expensive."


He's got a pretty short memory if he thinks that's the cheapest ever price but shows how crazy and insular F1 is.
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Old 14 May 2018, 16:19 (Ref:3822355)   #5599
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Really costs need to be down to a sensible level. Itís too much to sell to another team in F1. Iím not sure LMP1 has the megabunks. Really Toto should realise 12 million is still too much for most people, but not him obviously. It is way too much
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Old 14 May 2018, 17:39 (Ref:3822387)   #5600
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When Wolff says 12-14 million you can guarantee it will be double that at least.


I'm hoping for Honda to pull the trigger and leave F1.
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Old 14 May 2018, 17:47 (Ref:3822392)   #5601
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You see, only he sees 12 million is any good. I doubt Honda will leave though
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Old 15 May 2018, 03:36 (Ref:3822500)   #5602
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It all sounds great but "cheap" for F1 is still astronomical. The target for the new F1 engine cost is around $12m - $14m to sell to a privateer. The engine alone is several times more expensive than the entire budget for a privateer LMP1 team.

Toto Wolff: "On the other side we have found an agreement with the FIA to reduce the prices to all engine customers over the next years to levels that are the lowest ever in F1.

"I think if you get this kind of engine at prices like $12-14m, which is what we're trying to achieve, I have no understanding for somebody that claims the engines are too expensive."


He's got a pretty short memory if he thinks that's the cheapest ever price but shows how crazy and insular F1 is.
I wonder if the engine would be less expensive if you only had 6 or 7 races instead of 22? That might be something that could tempt lmp1 teams and f1 engine manufacturers. If someone like Aston Martin is thinking about doing f1 engines and future lmp1 I could see this taking place. Also with the way things look now, it seems less reliance on the hybrid in lmp1 is certain. That would be even closer to the way f1 is in how they make their power.
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Old 15 May 2018, 09:38 (Ref:3822555)   #5603
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I wonder if the engine would be less expensive if you only had 6 or 7 races instead of 22?
If nothing was changed about the engines, they would be MORE expensive.

F1 races generally last around 90 minutes, while the WEC races run 6 hours plus the 24 Hours of Le Mans. Assuming 5 non Le Mans races, that's a total of 54 hours of racing in WEC(30 of them the non-Le Mans rounds) vs a total of 33 hours for 22 F1 races. Even if all the F1 races lasted to their two-hour time limit, they'd still run 10 hours less than WEC.
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Old 15 May 2018, 11:37 (Ref:3822584)   #5604
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If nothing was changed about the engines, they would be MORE expensive.

F1 races generally last around 90 minutes, while the WEC races run 6 hours plus the 24 Hours of Le Mans. Assuming 5 non Le Mans races, that's a total of 54 hours of racing in WEC(30 of them the non-Le Mans rounds) vs a total of 33 hours for 22 F1 races. Even if all the F1 races lasted to their two-hour time limit, they'd still run 10 hours less than WEC.
F1 also has 3 FPs and a qualifying session, 22 times. If a practice session is 90 minutes long and a car runs only 30 minutes of it, that's an additional 90 minutes, plus maybe 15 minutes on track during qualifying. 105 minutes additional per weekend, which is an addtional 38.5 hours throughout the year.

So that's 71 hours of track time, approximately. The same maths, plus a little more for Le Mans weekend, takes it to around 67.5.

Basically, 5 WEC races plus Le Mans is around the equivalent of 22 F1 races. But that doesn't start to talk about times between rebuilds, limit of components etc. Either way, you're not going to bring an engine cost down from $14m to $1m.

Toto already thinks they're cheap enough. From his point of view he's correct, because he's the one selling them, so he'd love to make some more money. Nothing from F1 will transfer over - their idea of cheap is ridiculous compared to the rest of motorsport.
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Old 15 May 2018, 12:34 (Ref:3822590)   #5605
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Yes F1 has enough running on a weekend and it depends how long they run in practice. Really there are maybe about 2 too many races on the F1 calendar, may need to bring it down again. Really Le Mans can go it's own way, it's not comparable to F1

WEC has done the right thing to cap the number of races per season. But it is still expensive. If they want to use power units they need to do so with caution. Toto knows that he will get plenty from selling his engines, that's what he does. It's probably a bad idea for another series to try and copy F1's ideas
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Old 15 May 2018, 16:24 (Ref:3822627)   #5606
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I agree the price is too high right now. But we'll see. If someone like Aston Martin wants to do both, they may just use the same engine. F1 uses a lot more engines per year than the WEC ever will. It's not just because of the shorter running but because they fail and that's inevitable. So you have to factor in the price of the 21, 22 weekends, spares, support, upgrades etc. The WEC has 6 or 7 weekends and the test day + Le Mans week which is a lot lower even if it has longer run-time. If I were an F1 engine manufacturer that wanted in the Le Mans scene, I would offer a slightly revised engine based on the future F1 unit and lease/sell it at a lesser price. They won't have to worry about the latest upgrades or brand new engines every year if the Super Season format stays in place. And from what the talk is, part of the reduced price comes in the form of not having to worry about the extreme upgrade nature that F1 has. So you could make your engine purchase/lease and not have to worry about it being out of date a few months or even a year or two from now.

Haven't seen this posted, but more from Todt on manufacturers in 'GTP' https://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/...20-21-1037904/
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Old 15 May 2018, 19:02 (Ref:3822666)   #5607
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Itís certainly too high for WEC. I think if someone like Aston wants to do either F1 or WEC it would be better off doing F1. More bang for your buck and more track time. Personally Iím not much of a fan of this super season, but itís not too much of a problem

Iím not sure how much longer the WEC will go on for. Certainly if F1 ever gives up the PUs, WEC might pick them up. Todt needs to do something
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