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Old 29 Oct 2010, 21:16 (Ref:2782312)   #51
Alan Raine
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Alan Raine should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridAlan Raine should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridAlan Raine should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridAlan Raine should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I think the barriers are going to be pushed back at Gerrards fairly soon.

Only long lenses I'm afraid
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Old 30 Oct 2010, 01:12 (Ref:2782389)   #52
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I think the barriers are going to be pushed back at Gerrards fairly soon.

Only long lenses I'm afraid
Is that what all the excavation work is about? Looks like it is a lot more than pushing the barriers out.

Oh well, if it happens it happens. Push the barrier out and add fencing though and ..... well, that would significantly reduce the attraction of the place for me. In which case with so many places seemingly going to the dogs from a spectator photography point of view (and even for those with Media vests in some cases) it may be time to consider taking an interest in Landscapes rather than things motorised.
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Old 30 Oct 2010, 08:16 (Ref:2782441)   #53
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Is that what all the excavation work is about? Looks like it is a lot more than pushing the barriers out.

Oh well, if it happens it happens. Push the barrier out and add fencing though and ..... well, that would significantly reduce the attraction of the place for me. In which case with so many places seemingly going to the dogs from a spectator photography point of view (and even for those with Media vests in some cases) it may be time to consider taking an interest in Landscapes rather than things motorised.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFdGKeQph-Q

If you need to get closer Grant, what about this guy just up the road from me in Crossgar.
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Old 30 Oct 2010, 13:24 (Ref:2782535)   #54
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFdGKeQph-Q

If you need to get closer Grant, what about this guy just up the road from me in Crossgar.
Heh. Yes, I've seen that one before. I assume that he lifted the camera and started to shoot after the crash just to see of the thing was still working. A proper photographer would have recored the entire sequence ..... (though of course that would not have been too easy with a film camera back then.)

On the plus side you have to give him credit for choosing what turned out to be a safe place to stand yet still get right into the firing line.

The chap taking the video too - presumably standing behind another 'protective' wall. Good man (or stupid). Stood his ground as the debris flashed past his head.

Some recent rally shots I have seen suggest that people are going to extreme lengths to shoot something 'different'. I can understand why they would wish to do so but they maybe should re-consider the way they are doing it.

I don't really see this as an issue about how close one can get - more a question of whether the introduction of greater distances and, worse, fences can really be justified.

The day may come when even a very expensive long lens is not enough to capture more than mediocre images of a type that few want to see - at which point it may be that the spectacle enjoyed by non-photographically inclined spectators has also become so diminished that 'being there' is no longer important or desirable.
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Old 30 Oct 2010, 13:36 (Ref:2782537)   #55
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The day may come when even a very expensive long lens is not enough to capture more than mediocre images of a type that few want to see - at which point it may be that the spectacle enjoyed by non-photographically inclined spectators has also become so diminished that 'being there' is no longer important or desirable.
Judging by the normal turnouts of non-photographically inclined spectators at current race meetings that day would appear to have arrived!
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Old 30 Oct 2010, 13:43 (Ref:2782539)   #56
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It's easy to get too close (or was). I was working at Mallory back in the days when photographers could stand on the inside of the hairpin. In a Polo G40 race one car (Stephen Day's) clipped the rear of another (Willie Moore's I think) which headed in my direction, was launched by the kerb and flipped over the armco, clipping me as I dived to the ground. A very worried driver got out and rushed over asking if I was OK. Apart from a bruised back caused by one of the car's tyres, I was unscathed. I have a sequence of photos somewhere, the last shot from ground level of the car passing above me.
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Old 30 Oct 2010, 14:18 (Ref:2782553)   #57
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Judging by the normal turnouts of non-photographically inclined spectators at current race meetings that day would appear to have arrived!
True enough, although Mallory seems to get pretty good attendances for its size and location compared to other places. It has a lot going for it - at the moment .....

And if the racing gets dull one can usually enjoy a few minutes of the MotoX kids or the quad bikers leaping over the jumps the other side of the car park.

The other interpretation of you observation would be that most spectators these days seem to carry a camera ..... and use it.
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Old 30 Oct 2010, 14:21 (Ref:2782555)   #58
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It's easy to get too close (or was). I was working at Mallory back in the days when photographers could stand on the inside of the hairpin. In a Polo G40 race one car (Stephen Day's) clipped the rear of another (Willie Moore's I think) which headed in my direction, was launched by the kerb and flipped over the armco, clipping me as I dived to the ground. A very worried driver got out and rushed over asking if I was OK. Apart from a bruised back caused by one of the car's tyres, I was unscathed. I have a sequence of photos somewhere, the last shot from ground level of the car passing above me.
I seem to remember seeing snaps of that incident - unless there were others similar.

I would love to see the sequence you shot if you can find them. I often wonder what I would do in that sort of situation.
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Old 30 Oct 2010, 14:35 (Ref:2782560)   #59
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I don't really see this as an issue about how close one can get - more a question of whether the introduction of greater distances and, worse, fences can really be justified.

More run-off at Gerards is desirable - I've seen some pretty hefty impacts with the tyre wall at several points around there. Do you place your ability to get the photos you want above driver safety? Not much consolatiopn to a driver who's being cut out of his car that somebody got a few great pictures of the crash, I'd suggest!

Let's be realistic about this - spectator viewing facilities at Mallory have been considerably improved over the last couple of years & continue to be improved. Driver (&rider) safety has improved immensely, but there are still improvements that can, & will, be made.
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Old 30 Oct 2010, 17:26 (Ref:2782613)   #60
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More run-off at Gerards is desirable - I've seen some pretty hefty impacts with the tyre wall at several points around there. Do you place your ability to get the photos you want above driver safety? Not much consolatiopn to a driver who's being cut out of his car that somebody got a few great pictures of the crash, I'd suggest!

Let's be realistic about this - spectator viewing facilities at Mallory have been considerably improved over the last couple of years & continue to be improved. Driver (&rider) safety has improved immensely, but there are still improvements that can, & will, be made.
I agree in principle but sometimes wonder whether the actions taken really add up to a major advantage for safety.

I've seen a few incidents (or aftermath of incidents) at Mallory in recent years including a few at Gerards and pout of those the Gerards incidents concluded well short of the barriers. I am aware that was not so often the case in times gone by but these days the gravel seems to work well.

Think of Donington for a moment.

The revise chicane was related to the proximity of the wall at the old one, or so we were told. I don't recall too many incidents of cars hitting the wall under the VIP centre although have seen a few hitting the wall near the pit entrance when they lost it or had some other incident as they reached the straight.

Now the new chicane needs gravel. Which gets thrown all over the track So in come the modern equivalents of straw bales to protect the gravel and the BTCC boys contrive to have a large incident the leaves cars in barriers all over the place. Hmm.

Add to that that now the Wheatcroft Straight is longer the terminal speeds at the end of it are higher - so Redgate corner needs to be revised in terms of runoff space and gravel traps which, it seems, means removing Redgate Lodge and pushing the gravel back and so pushing the spectarot area back. And as that has nowhere to go inside the circuit boundary wall it means taking over some (or all?) of the hardstanding used for other activities and the Sunday market ..... etc., etc., etc. Or so it seems.

So with all that effort and expense lets remind ourselves about the nature of and frequency of the original perceived problems just to check that the solutions are proportionate to the problems.

I could foresee facilities with well protected spectator areas but no spectators and well protected and safe track areas but few people able to afford to use them.

Maybe private Race Resorts are the way to go?

And no, I don't put my ability to take a photo above the requirements for competitor safety but if you take it as a proxy for attracting people to the sport in a live rather than TV managed environment then just maybe those few spectators who do turn up will become fewer, maybe even for the traditionally 'big' meetings.

Whether that would adversely affect the finances of the sport I have no idea but I can't see it helping much.
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Old 30 Oct 2010, 17:32 (Ref:2782616)   #61
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grant, don't put ideas in anyone's heads or we'll be watching racing at Lydden from Canterbury and Dover.
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Old 30 Oct 2010, 17:39 (Ref:2782618)   #62
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grant, don't put ideas in anyone's heads or we'll be watching racing at Lydden from Canterbury and Dover.
Hehe.

Well, when the Silverstone viewing area is moved back to the A43 services in the M1 it will save me an hour or so and a few quid on each trip. Can't wait ....

brands mentioned his friend with the Hubble sized lenses. I just wonder whether coverage from a satellite facility will become necessary to get any shots at all.
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Old 31 Oct 2010, 09:33 (Ref:2782858)   #63
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brands mentioned his friend with the Hubble sized lenses. I just wonder whether coverage from a satellite facility will become necessary to get any shots at all.
Yes, our friend GS; let's give him a plug, as he has given me loads of camera advice in recent years; it's just that I'm a slow learner!

http://www.ukmotorsportpics.com/

I call his 'Hubble sized lens' the 'mortar' or the 'bazooka' as not only is it enormous it is covered in camouflage.
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