Rotax costs

[webberisgod]

Hi everyone, ive got a question for all you Rotax types out there. Im looking at stepping out from national class karting ( im in australia but id like to hear from UK or canadian karters or anyone that runs a rotax) and stepping up to a Rotax.

Given the rather high cost per unit of these engines i was wondering what peoples experiences where like in regards to maintainence and failures on these engines. Are they hard to look after? do they blow up frequently? are there any special considerations?

if anyone has any advice, or even wants to tell me to run for the hills if theres high running costs id be really happy to hear from you

cheers

Graham

[marcus]

im not sure of running costs having never owned one , I did have a drive in one and thought it was fantastic though

a story of two guys buying a rotax each.

One didnt touch his at all , just did the regular maintainence that you would normally do and never had a problem and won races quite often at a local club day.

the second guy decided he wanted to change things and muck with this and that (not exactly sure what he did) but he had nothing but trouble , I saw him drive in at least 6 races and he retired from every race (5 mechanical 1 crash)

so it would seem that playing with these engines is probably not a good idea unless you really know what you are doing.

not sure of any help I can give you due to my lack of experience with them but they sure are great fun to drive and if you dont play to much maintainence should be the same as any other engine I guess

[FormulaFordinfo]

I race a CRG Rotax Max, and only started back in December with a second hand one. To be honest, as a beginner, I didn't know what to look for or even take the wheels off. It cost me over a grand to get it sorted before it was running 'acceptably', and just as it was doing so, the engine went after just 25 hours. It was a total rebuild which meant I saw little change out of £600. I didn't know the real history of the engine in terms of how it had been treated before.

Anyway, after that was rebuilt, I put it onto a new chassis, and great! The only expense was tyre wear and petrol. But then that was stolen.

So, Graham, with regards to your question, it can get expensive, and is especially at the start, and I do reccommend insurance if you are thinking of buying one, even if you crash it. If you look after your kart, keep it clean both on the outside and inside, and make sure you do everything properly, then with a bit of luck you should only have to spend out on tyres and petrol and entry fees.

If you're thinking of buying one, see if anyone local to you is offering some sort of test day so you can decide whether or not it's something suited to you.

[ghinzani]

Formula Ford Info are you the guy who had his Rotax on ebay at the begining of the year and was bidding against me with another id? was it a yellow one? I bought a Sodi in the end and its been great, apart from me crashing it a bit!! Engines rock solid tho, cant recomened them highly enough, altho 100's are more fun to drive.

[webberisgod]

thanks for your help there. thats a little more encouraging! im really keen to get into one but didnt want to buy somthing that was going to be hugley maint intensive. ATM im looking at getting a 2nd hand kart ( probbaly an arrow Ax8 if that means anything to anyone) and a new engine to hopefully avoid most motor issues. For those of you that have them are you using Mycron or alfano data logger / meters? if so what model do you have and how are you finding them?

[superbird]

Second hand AX8 and new engine sounds like a good idea. Our engine has done about 30 hours now I think with no trouble, and we do quite a bit of messing around with the carb. I recommend you get the MaxJet software (do a google, I can't remember where it's from) which you put in the air temp, pressure, humidity and it will tell you what jets to use.

We have a MyChron 3 and it's been a bit troublesome, so right now I'd suggest you get an Alfano.

[ghinzani]

Originally posted by superbird
I recommend you get the MaxJet software (do a google, I can't remember where it's from) which you put in the air temp, pressure, humidity and it will tell you what jets to use.

We have a MyChron 3 and it's been a bit troublesome, so right now I'd suggest you get an Alfano.

I liek the sound of that!! thats my biggest problem knowing what to use!
Alfanos are very good, once you read the manual. I'm hoping to read mine sometime soon.

[speedy king]

I race a Rotax FR125. I bought mine second hand and have had two failiures in one year. One when a rubber O ring split and made my water temperature go very high and anohter (just now) which i think is the clutch. But they are normally extremely reliable. We haven't done anywork to ours apart from adjusting the carberettor and that is it, runs a treat. Powerful, reliable and can run up to 50 hours without a re-build. So in the long run relatively cheap compared to other types.

[webberisgod]

thanks for that! superbird, what was the problem with the michron 3? is it just innacurate? hard to use? doesnt work somtimes? anyone in Aus know how much a alfano will set you back?

[Superliner II]

The My-chron we (superbird and I) have is probobly the best tacho on the market IMHO. It is a great tool, very usefull and has excellent data analysis software. However it has not worked properly since early on, refusing to record any data and giving strange readings for what was recorded (177hp @ 3000rpm!!??).

These problems might have had something to do with the bloody operator not bothering to read the instruction's before he downloaded some data from it and then going and playing with the maths channels without knowing what the hell he was doing.

I have not got around to sending it away for fixing yet and there is the small problem that i didn't buy it in the UK which means that the importers do not want to see it because i bought it cheaper abroad.

In the meantime i have got an R3 Tacho which is the best thing without a data logger i have seen. I'm very happy with it and recomend it to anyone. It does everything you need and is very easy to use and doesn't eat batteries like the MyChron and Alfano do. Bargain www.r3racing.co.uk

For my comments on running the Rotax go to:
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...threadid=42294

[webberisgod]

superliner, thanks for that again. its looking more encouraging. I dont know if the R3 is availaible in Aus but ill have a look for it, the only thing that would concern me with it is that you cannot seem to ahve 2 temperatures on the screen at a time which you can with the mychron or alfano, do you find that a problem? also thanks for the other link, mlooks like im in for an expensive year

do you find you get a true 50 hours between rebuilds? most engine builders ive talekd to here recomend 20 - 25 hours between top end rebuilds. are they getting greedy or is it not wise to take it to 50 hours. Id assume that the rate/ chance of failure is exponential to the number of hours its been run for.

[Mazuly]

Hi,

I run a Rotax Max for the past 4 years with a BRM kart in Canada. I spent about 3 years lapping with it and started to race it this year. The engine has about 65 hours on it and was rebuild after 35 hours not because there was something wrong with it, but because I wanted to have it rebuild as a security. The only failure I have had with the engine was the starter motor failure (the casing of the starter motor cracked due to vibration. Rotax now has a plate that goes over the starter motor for this failure). I have to say that for an engine that revs to 14000 RPM every weekend, it has been very reliable. I also recently purchased the Maxjet software with Racejet Pod and all the headache of jetting has gone away. I am going to keep this engine for next year and change my kart to an Arrows.

I personally recommend this engine to anybody who is interested in weekend amateur racing.

Happy Karting,
Maziar

[Superliner II]

The rules here don't allow us to race with two temp sensors. If they did i would have exhaust gas temp. I think it is a very valuable tool for getting the engine going right. Only the Mychron 3+ or Gold allows more than 1 temp sensor i think.

I have had my engine for 18 months. In that time it has put up around 35 hours. I have known of a few engines that have run passed 50 hours with no real problems mechanically. Some people here throw money at their engines in the form of blueprinting (worth it) and rebuilds every 10 hours (not worth it). If i wanted to throw that kind of money at an engine i would get an ICA or ICC, which i am planning on doing after college.

I remember my engine got noticably better after the first 5 hours or so and has stayed pretty good since. I have not experienced what a rebuilt engine is like performance wise recently, but i have got a rebuilder in mind who i am confident will do a good job.

[ghinzani]

Superliner can we race with those sensors in the airbox then?? Its not classed as a modification? I would need to take a laptop to the track to download the info as well I guess.

[Flatspot]

I am very,very new to the karting scene although I have spent many hours in race cars so if my questions seem naive you know why.

My son has made the decision to give up dirt bikes for karts (I like this) so we have been doing a fair amount of research on how to start our team and it appears Rotax in without question the best bang for the buck.

That said I am also very competative by nature and am not opposed to dropping the cash to be competative. You know the old "Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?" routine.

Superliner II suggests blueprinting above. Is it legal in a sealed engine spec class? Must establish the budget you know. Any suggestions on have to have speed tricks that I should be aware of before we start? Odd expenses that I should just plan on etc?

Any help/suggestions you have are appreciated.

[Superliner II]

Ghinzani, i am not sure what you mean by sensors in the airbox but i am going to assume that you mean the exhaust header.

It is forbidden to modify the exhaust in any way and that includes drilling the exhaust to fit an EGT gauge. I plan drill my old exhaust and use it only during testing.

Flatspot, I am not sure what rules your club runs under in Utah but i know that blueprinting is definetly legal here in the UK and is most common among serious competitors in the S1 British championships, not so common among club racers.

If you have a 'money no object' attitude though i would say to you have a look at some of the 100cc classes or 125cc shifter karts as these can satisfy your need to spend to get faster a lot more than Rotax will.

How old is your son?

[Flatspot]

I didn't mean to come off as "money is no object" but rather that we will spend the money we need to spend to be competative in a more budget oriented class to start. That's why we're looking at Rotax. In other words I would rather have great equipment in a lower formula than dog equipment in a higher formula given the same budget. Does that make sense?

My son is 12 he will be 13 in December so I assume he'll drive FR125 Junior Max.

[ghinzani]

Originally posted by Superliner II
Ghinzani, i am not sure what you mean by sensors in the airbox but i am going to assume that you mean the exhaust header.

It is forbidden to modify the exhaust in any way and that includes drilling the exhaust to fit an EGT gauge. I plan drill my old exhaust and use it only during testing.

So you cant use it in a race then??

[Superliner II]

So you cant use it in a race then??

Correct. Only during testing. The exhaust would not pass scrutineering with a hole for a sensor drilled in it.

[ghinzani]

Originally posted by FormulaFordinfo
I race a CRG Rotax Max

like this one?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...3&category=324

[FormulaFordinfo]

No, this one...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...tem=2430671967