[BTCC] 2014 BTCC speculation, rumours and news

[Pettersson]

Wonderful stuff! The Merc could be a real good looker . I love to see such a variety in makes and models.

I hope someone (in future seasons) will build an NGTC car out of the new Mazda3, as well as a FIAT Viaggio (Dodge Dart).

[Moneyseeker]

Fortec are considering BTCC according to today's M News.

Apparently they are talking to drivers and would look to enter as a "factory backed outfit", no word on cars but M News did refer to their long history with Mercedes from F3 through to GT's.

[porsche962fan]

at this rate we could have 30 all NGTC grid next

I checked out, the last time the BTCC raced with a single class of cars was way back in 1999 ... so after 14 years

[FIRE]

Great news!

Why do they have a blue/orange livery?
With Ciceley being a Mercedes commercial vehicles dealer a silver (or black, or white) livery makes more sense.

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

at this rate we could have 30 all NGTC grid next

I checked out, the last time the BTCC raced with a single class of cars was way back in 1999 ... so after 14 years

I refuse to get carried away about grid numbers. It's a long way away.

Originally Posted by FIRE

Great news!

Why do they have a blue/orange livery?
With Ciceley being a Mercedes commercial vehicles dealer a silver (or black, or white) livery makes more sense.

Because it looks good? It really stands out when you see it in person. Metallic blue.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Why do they have a blue/orange livery?
With Ciceley being a Mercedes commercial vehicles dealer a silver (or black, or white) livery makes more sense.

Apparently Morgan's gran complained last year that she couldn't spot him on TV easily enough so this year they ran the blue/orange livery. As Craner said, it is very distinctive and very easy to spot.

[emicen]

Originally Posted by auroan

Nope. The subframes mount to the TOCA designed spec rollcage. As mentioned The only real affect a shell makes to the car is a bit of Aero and differences in wheelbase/centre of gravity weight distribution..

Spec rollcage...

Quite interested to hear how a "spec cage" could be used with massive variances in internal shell geometries.

You mean, TOCA defined pick up points I suspect

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Thorney

You can have a copy of the invoice if you like

We sold the first car for £200k including the engine. At the time you could own an engine but now its daft to do that so most lease (cheaper).

Thanks so much for that John... very interesting indeed.

As an aside, your honesty and frankness has always been such a breath of fresh air.

[Thorney]

Originally Posted by emicen

Spec rollcage...

Quite interested to hear how a "spec cage" could be used with massive variances in internal shell geometries.

You mean, TOCA defined pick up points I suspect

A little more than that, TOCA spec the pick ups but also all the tube diameters, thickness, materials and complete cage design, only changes are to fit the interior space in the shell. You're right in that an Insignia cage is different to a Honda one but the design and where the subframes pick up are identical, mind you that was until Hard decided to swap one to RHD (gawd knows why) and chopped it up, it had to be put back together so who knows now.

[Thorney]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Thanks so much for that John... very interesting indeed.

As an aside, your honesty and frankness has always been such a breath of fresh air.

Thank you, although its a double edged sword, so much of motorsport is complete BS it beggars belief and the higher you go the deeper the BS goes, means I dont make many friends but screw it I'd rather watch and feel I did the right thing than be on the grid knowing I screwed over people to get there.

[auroan]

Originally Posted by Thorney

A little more than that, TOCA spec the pick ups but also all the tube diameters, thickness, materials and complete cage design, only changes are to fit the interior space in the shell. You're right in that an Insignia cage is different to a Honda one but the design and where the subframes pick up are identical, mind you that was until Hard decided to swap one to RHD (gawd knows why) and chopped it up, it had to be put back together so who knows now.

Thanks John, confirms my understanding the the spec cage, and saved me responding.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Lea Wood could be the one who buys that Avensis, so I suppose he'll be trying to piece some funding together - he won't let this one go, especially if he wants a competitive 2nd hand NGTC car. If I were in his position I'd be doing all I could to get sponsors, especially using the JST win as a winover.

[psq43]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

Lea Wood could be the one who buys that Avensis, so I suppose he'll be trying to piece some funding together - he won't let this one go, especially if he wants a competitive 2nd hand NGTC car. If I were in his position I'd be doing all I could to get sponsors, especially using the JST win as a winover.

From what's been said, the only bits available Will be pretty much the shell and cage for anyone to buy off Cicely as they may very well strip it down and re-use the common bits on the A class, so Lea will still have to find more thaw just a few quid to buy the NGTC components to go into the Toyota shell.

I may have misunderstood things however and I'll happily stand corrected.

[Sodemo]

If there really is all that much of the car which is standardised, why is the Honda chassis so much better than the rest?

[psq43]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

If there really is all that much of the car which is standardised, why is the Honda chassis so much better than the rest?

For that, you'll need somebody who doesn't have a head full of ketchup.

That rules me out.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

If there really is all that much of the car which is standardised, why is the Honda chassis so much better than the rest?

Cos they know what they're doing

[psq43]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

If there really is all that much of the car which is standardised, why is the Honda chassis so much better than the rest?

I'll probably be proved wrong, but maybe having the right people around the team, two top drivers, manufacturer support, and the all important cash to spend on testing and development, a good strong Neil Brown engine they are familiar with since 2011, stubby wheelbase, good weight distribution...the list probably goes on.

As they say, when everyone has almost the same kit, its who gets the best out of it that succeeds.

[davidjones]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

If there really is all that much of the car which is standardised, why is the Honda chassis so much better than the rest?

Thousands of miles of testing! As has been said earlier in the thread Honda had done around two seasons worth of laps before the first race in 2012.

The shorter wheelbase of the Civic gives it an advantage on the tight twisty circuits, and their budget allows them full use of the allocation of new tires, and experienced personnel.

[psq43]

Originally Posted by davidjones

Thousands of miles of testing! As has been said earlier in the thread Honda had done around two seasons worth of laps before the first race in 2012.

The shorter wheelbase of the Civic gives it an advantage on the tight twisty circuits, and their budget allows them full use of the allocation of new tires, and experienced personnel.

Ooh so I was a little bit right then.

I'll buy a lottery ticket now..,

[Thorney]

Originally Posted by psq43

so Lea will still have to find more thaw just a few quid to buy the NGTC components to go in

So that's just £154k to find then, plus labour to fit it all and an engine. I hope he does it, I really do.

[Craner Curves]

The whole car is for sale as far as I know. The talk of them using the internals from the Avensis for the Mercedes was just good PR from Toca. If you're going to build a car, you might as well stick new everything in it!

[davidjones]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

The whole car is for sale as far as I know. The talk of them using the internals from the Avensis for the Mercedes was just good PR from Toca. If you're going to build a car, you might as well stick new everything in it!

That make far more sense than ripping apart a perfectly good race car, but they will be able to use any NGTC spares they have left over which will save a few quid.

[psq43]

Originally Posted by davidjones

That make far more sense than ripping apart a perfectly good race car, but they will be able to use any NGTC spares they have left over which will save a few quid.

Oh I dunno. Its been done before, to the very same car actually.

Morgans current mount is the Wrathall 2011 shell, as Frank said on TTT they gutted it over the winter of '11 and stuck upgraded NGTC bits into a '12 shell.

Again, I may have had wax in my ears at the time.

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by psq43

Oh I dunno. Its been done before, to the very same car actually.

Morgans current mount is the Wrathall 2011 shell, as Frank said on TTT they gutted it over the winter of '11 and stuck upgraded NGTC bits into a '12 shell.

Again, I may have had wax in my ears at the time.

Tis true. But there's more demand for used cars now than there was post-2011.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

The whole car is for sale as far as I know. The talk of them using the internals from the Avensis for the Mercedes was just good PR from Toca. If you're going to build a car, you might as well stick new everything in it!

I understood that they're selling the car complete at the end of the season. I thought Alan Gow's comments were related understanding, set-up, spares etc... i.e. that they could transfer much of the expertise and extras they had to the Mercedes, not that there were going to build it by cannibalizing their Avensis.