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Old 20 Aug 2008, 05:40 (Ref:2271991)   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TWRv12
Whatever about Plato's pass, he didn't take anyone off. TOC took Plato off.
In the clip, Plato 'forced' TOC to have two wheels off the track.
IMO, TOC was returning to a track that he was unfairly forced off. In doing so, he made contact with Plato, and the resultant damage was the reason for Plato leaving the track.

I'm not saying that TOC was fully justified in his actions, however if Plato had been honest enough to admit that he only managed to pass TOC by forcing him off, then he should have allowed TOC to retake the position rather than complain about someone 'returning the favour'.
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Old 21 Aug 2008, 05:39 (Ref:2272518)   #27
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I say Plato forced TOC off the track and when TOC came back on the bump and extra grip caught him out. JP could have guessed that was going to happen.
I bet if TOC had not managed to keep the car half on the circuit and had lost it big time and hit the wall then JP would have just said it was a racing incident and that the youngster lost it due to inexperience. No win situation for TOC
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Old 21 Aug 2008, 10:00 (Ref:2272623)   #28
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TOC FOLT NO DOBT ABOUT IT
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Old 21 Aug 2008, 12:52 (Ref:2272704)   #29
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Originally Posted by bazzmch
TOC FOLT NO DOBT ABOUT IT
Having spent about ten minutes trying to decipher your message, does this mean you think Plato was a wholly innocent party in the whole incident?

I'm still a little bit confused how that would be, when Plato himself has stated that he carried out an agressive move because the situation required him to push TOC to make the pass.

Wheels in the air + cutting over a kerb + driving into the side of another car = lost control, IMO.

As I stated previously, I'm not saying that TOC's actions were those of a clean, faultless driver, just that after Plato's actions, he can have no complaint with TOC 'returning the favour' .
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Old 21 Aug 2008, 22:12 (Ref:2273017)   #30
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BootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
It sounded like the crowd in that clip were pretty pleased that Plato crashed there. Maybe they just wanted some action, but perhaps it's a sign of an anti-Plato mood.
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Old 22 Aug 2008, 00:49 (Ref:2273066)   #31
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Originally Posted by bazzmch
TOC FOLT NO DOBT ABOUT IT
I thought they speak and write in English, in Dublin?
Obviously I'm wrong.
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Old 22 Aug 2008, 04:46 (Ref:2273105)   #32
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Originally Posted by Craner Curves
C'mon stedevil - we await your verdict!
Trying to keep you guys in suspense

Well, 3 overall quite nice races. Gio again showing he is a world class racer and Plato not being far behind (he should just race more and talk less).

This weeks knitpicks

TOC-Plato: It's all been said really. TOC stepped over the line the way he took Plato out of the race, but it was a borderline pass from Plato as well and he has a huge history of taking others out himself, so he really should be the last to complain. Yet somehow, he usually ends up the first to complain


Other than that, I also got myself the best ever race weekend for a rebutal to any future "Turkington is one of the most fair drivers in BTCC" statements I might come across. Turkington IMO was the most dirty driver out there over the 3 races, with no less than 5(!) other drivers ending up way off track due to deliberate punting from his side. As soon as anyone happened to be on the outside of him in a corner, *BAM* and off the road they went. At the end of race 3 apparently drivers were as fed up by him as I was and everybody hit him back hard as they went past him. Jackson, Gio and Neal all helped out in making him end up even behind Jelly in place 15(?). Hope he got the message and cleans up his act (the TV commentators didnt get it though and in fact found it positive that he nowdays dont drive fair).

BTW does anybody know how many plastic poles where taken out in the chikane? For a while there it was replaced by a new one every lap and overrun again as soon as the cars came. It seemed they ran out of stock eventually though, but why o why can't they just not
A) Actual penalise people for hitting the pole
or
B) Allow people to drive straight if they want to (removing the potentially dangerous tirebarrier and constantly overrun pole, the replacement of which might put a marshal at severe risk of being hit by a car)
or
C) Give out official extra points for the driver that take out the pole the most times
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Old 22 Aug 2008, 11:50 (Ref:2273291)   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stedevil
BTW does anybody know how many plastic poles where taken out in the chikane? For a while there it was replaced by a new one every lap and overrun again as soon as the cars came. It seemed they ran out of stock eventually though, but why o why can't they just not
A) Actual penalise people for hitting the pole
or
B) Allow people to drive straight if they want to (removing the potentially dangerous tirebarrier and constantly overrun pole, the replacement of which might put a marshal at severe risk of being hit by a car)
or
C) Give out official extra points for the driver that take out the pole the most times
Go for option C, definitely!!

My suggestion would be to make pole explode into a cloud of dust if hit (a la the joke golf balls). That way, if someone hit it, they would be impeded by a loss of vision for a mpment.
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Old 22 Aug 2008, 13:30 (Ref:2273349)   #34
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"At the end of race 3 apparently drivers were as fed up by him as I was and everybody hit him back hard as they went past him"

Are you saying there was deliberate contact after the race was over?
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Old 22 Aug 2008, 15:03 (Ref:2273380)   #35
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No
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Old 22 Aug 2008, 17:12 (Ref:2273451)   #36
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I think the point that the commentators were trying to make about Turkington is that he needed to become more assertive. Too often he's been a bit of a push-over when challenged. The problem is that there is a very fine line between being assertive and aggressive and on the basis of what we saw at Knockhill he's not got that balance quite right.

The chicane marker posts are something of a running joke. The marshals run out during the safety car period or between races, they don't go out every lap. Gio seemed to be worse of all, at times he had all 4 wheels on the grass and made no attempt to take the chicane.
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Old 22 Aug 2008, 17:40 (Ref:2273474)   #37
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Without wanting to start another debate the corner cutting at the chicane amuses me. The BTCC and supports get away with a lot, at club level we are told we must always have two wheels over the white line (I don't always at the chicane...shhh) as it's the racetrack we are meant to be racing on..

Some competitors have been black flagged for this before.
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Old 23 Aug 2008, 10:46 (Ref:2273790)   #38
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I only heard Plato's comments from the interview on TV, and they I thought they were fairly well balanced? I don't care what kind of moves he's made in the past (and god knows many has been awful), they don't have any effect on this particular incident. I'll start off by saying I don't have any problem with forceful driving, which the BTCC is quite full of. There were a lot of strong moves in the three races which I thought were quite all right. Plato's move on TOC including. But there were no reason at all for TOC to turn back into Plato and take him out like that. It was just dangerous.

On another note, blimely, Giovanardi does have some talent when it comes to picking his way through the field doesn't he? It seems when everybody starts racing a bit too hard he just slips through. Champion performance, yes, but it's just not as exciting as when we had Muller... I don't really support one driver or another, I just want entertaining races and a close battle in the championship. Imagine if SEAT had had a bit better reliability....
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Old 23 Aug 2008, 13:43 (Ref:2273833)   #39
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TOC did have a reason to drive his car into Plato's. If he drove straight on, het would have driven onto the grass, so he had to turn right to stay on the track. Plato could (should?) have given him some room.
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Old 23 Aug 2008, 13:52 (Ref:2273834)   #40
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Originally Posted by werner
TOC did have a reason to drive his car into Plato's. If he drove straight on, het would have driven onto the grass, so he had to turn right to stay on the track. Plato could (should?) have given him some room.
He would have ended up on the grass, but as we saw several times during the three races that's not a big deal. Look at the way he rejoins. He's not worried about the grass, he's worried about wrecking Plato. Also I find it appaling that the crowd cheered when he hit the barriers. That's not an appropriate way to react to an accident.
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Old 23 Aug 2008, 21:59 (Ref:2274043)   #41
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Given that the race officials, who have intevierwed both drivers about the incident, looked at their on-board camera footage and analysed the telemetry from both cars, have decided not to punish Tom, then I think it's safe to say he did nothing wrong.

And as SEAT didn't appeal their verdict, I think it's also safe to say they didn't think so either.
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Old 23 Aug 2008, 22:05 (Ref:2274046)   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy Magnusson
Also I find it appaling that the crowd cheered when he hit the barriers. That's not an appropriate way to react to an accident.
Unfortunately they follow the BTCC everywhere. I call them Crash Monkeys.
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Old 24 Aug 2008, 03:40 (Ref:2274106)   #43
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Originally Posted by sceptic
Given that the race officials, who have intevierwed both drivers about the incident, looked at their on-board camera footage and analysed the telemetry from both cars, have decided not to punish Tom, then I think it's safe to say he did nothing wrong.

And as SEAT didn't appeal their verdict, I think it's also safe to say they didn't think so either.
So you are also claiming eg Turkington also did nothing wrong by sending 5 people into the gravel? After all, no penalty is likely to be given nor will any team be complaining...

We all know you have to go pretty far across the border before any penalties are handed out in BTCC.
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Old 24 Aug 2008, 08:17 (Ref:2274157)   #44
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Originally Posted by stedevil
So you are also claiming eg Turkington also did nothing wrong by sending 5 people into the gravel? After all, no penalty is likely to be given nor will any team be complaining...

We all know you have to go pretty far across the border before any penalties are handed out in BTCC.
Try telling that to Stephen Jelley...
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Old 24 Aug 2008, 09:48 (Ref:2274191)   #45
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Try telling that to Stephen Jelley...
What penalty did he get?
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Old 24 Aug 2008, 15:59 (Ref:2274363)   #46
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Craner Curves should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridCraner Curves should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridCraner Curves should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridCraner Curves should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Knockhill is a unique circuit in the BTCC calendar, it always produces racing that is too close and hardly anyone sticks to the tarmac for a whole lap. I think you have to just accept that this is just the way it is there. A stark contrast to the wide Silverstone circuit next weekend.

I remember the person a few years back on a forum bursting a blood vessel at all the drivers because they did not obey the Blue Book at Knockhill and stay the proper side of the white line.
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Old 24 Aug 2008, 19:27 (Ref:2274535)   #47
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What penalty did he get?
He got points on his licence and a fine I think.
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Old 24 Aug 2008, 21:02 (Ref:2274631)   #48
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Craner Curves should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridCraner Curves should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridCraner Curves should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridCraner Curves should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
For the shove on Vaulkhard?
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