Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Single Seater Racing > Formula One

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11 Jun 2018, 18:15 (Ref:3828472)   #426
P38 in workshop
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 804
P38 in workshop has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
I can't criticise Hartley for the move,but I can imagine the criticism had he held back echoing what was directed at Bottas a few weeks ago.As the man said "If you see a gap and don't go for it-you are no longer a racing driver.".
P38 in workshop is offline  
Quote
Old 12 Jun 2018, 08:17 (Ref:3828590)   #427
GingerPixel
Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location:
Manchester, UK
Posts: 240
GingerPixel should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridGingerPixel should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
My view is that the only thing you can blame Hartley for is throwing an optimistic pass down past Stroll. Cutting the corner slightly before gave him a bit of an usual line and I doubt Stroll even considered that he might be there, add a dab of oppo into that mix and there was nowhere for either of them to go.


I do think that Hartley is fast becoming a name synonymous with scattered bits of carbon fiber debris though, and his decision making is clearly not quite there yet. Collecting that 911 at Silverstone last year looks to have been the top of a slippery slope!
GingerPixel is offline  
Quote
Old 12 Jun 2018, 08:52 (Ref:3828595)   #428
on_to_it
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
New Zealand
New Zealand
Posts: 940
on_to_it has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Quote:
Originally Posted by P38 in workshop View Post
I can't criticise Hartley for the move,but I can imagine the criticism had he held back echoing what was directed at Bottas a few weeks ago.As the man said "If you see a gap and don't go for it-you are no longer a racing driver.".
I couldn't agree more. Stroll was all over the kerbs on the right of the circuit before the contact and Hartley had a huge gap to drive in to. All
Strolls fault in my opinion.
on_to_it is offline  
Quote
Old 12 Jun 2018, 09:22 (Ref:3828604)   #429
Dixon9
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 87
Dixon9 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridDixon9 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
it's lap 1 turn 5 - there's always an element of praying one of the five blokes around you don't lose control.
Dixon9 is offline  
Quote
Old 12 Jun 2018, 10:56 (Ref:3828620)   #430
F1Guy
Veteran
 
F1Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Antarctica
Driving dangerously
Posts: 1,406
F1Guy User has been fined for unsportsmanlike behaviour!
Quote:
Originally Posted by GingerPixel View Post
My view is that the only thing you can blame Hartley for is throwing an optimistic pass down past Stroll. Cutting the corner slightly before gave him a bit of an usual line and I doubt Stroll even considered that he might be there, add a dab of oppo into that mix and there was nowhere for either of them to go.
Agreed.

Have a look at the photo below, which is a few seconds before wall time. Hartley is almost entirely off the track. Right at this point is when he should've backed off. He is not even on the track FFS! But after he cut the corner, he then tries to get ahead of Stroll on the outside of turn 5! Even if Stroll didn't have that oversteer moment, Stoll was always going to drive to the left as that is the proper racing line for turn 5.




Someone mentioned how the Force India managed the same passing move on a Renault at the same corner just moments before the Stroll/Hartley crash. If you look closely, Ocon is still inside the track limits at that exact same location where Harley had his car on the grass, almost all four wheels off the track. Ocon got the advantage he needed by staying off the grass and squeezing Hulkenberg by taking a straighter line. Plus Ocon actually overtook Hulkenberg well before the spot Stroll and Hartley collided. Hartley was just over ambitious by cutting the corner and staying on the gas on the outside of T5 with Stroll side by side, inches away. Two very different scenarios, but here we have some trying to compare both moves as the same.





With Hartley on this ice, he should not have put himself in that position. Simple as that. It's lap 1 of 70 FFS, and when your F1 career is on the chopping block, that was not a smart move at all. The only reason Hartley will continue at Toro Rosso is because they cannot find another driver to take his seat. For the moment.



F1Guy is offline  
__________________
When did I do dangerous driving???
Quote
Old 12 Jun 2018, 11:10 (Ref:3828624)   #431
Akrapovic
Veteran
 
Akrapovic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Scotland
Posts: 10,912
Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Hartley is almost entirely off the track.
Since kerbs count as racing surface, this is not true. He is in fact, only one third off the track. Not "almost entirely". If kerbs do not count as track, then Ocon is over 50% off the track and the same criticisms apply to him.

Quote:
Stoll was always going to drive to the left as that is the proper racing line for turn 5.
And yet Hulk did not. Almost like he has enough situational awareness to not force another car off the road.

Hartley should never have put himself in the position of being alongside another car! You have no idea what these other drivers would do! What if one of them crashes? Clearly, the best thing Hartley can do for his career is never overtake another car ever again, that's too risky. In fact, he should park his car completely so Stroll can't crash into it. That's a sensible career move.
Akrapovic is offline  
Quote
Old 12 Jun 2018, 13:01 (Ref:3828644)   #432
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,325
S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!
Hartley was just unfortunate that Stroll lost it. You can fit two cars down there, so it was a perfectly legitimate move.
S griffin is offline  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Quote
Old 12 Jun 2018, 15:38 (Ref:3828675)   #433
Richard C
Veteran
 
Richard C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,803
Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Appologies for cutting up your post, but I wanted to avoid jumping around with my comments...
Quote:
Originally Posted by F1Guy View Post
Have a look at the photo below, which is a few seconds before wall time. Hartley is almost entirely off the track. Right at this point is when he should've backed off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by F1Guy View Post
Someone mentioned how the Force India managed the same passing move on a Renault at the same corner just moments before the Stroll/Hartley crash. If you look closely, Ocon is still inside the track limits at that exact same location where Harley had his car on the grass, almost all four wheels off the track. Ocon got the advantage he needed by staying off the grass and squeezing Hulkenberg by taking a straighter line. Plus Ocon actually overtook Hulkenberg well before the spot Stroll and Hartley collided.
You may feel that the photos/video supports your conclusions, but in general I don't agree with them. I think the entire video tells the story and not just a few selective images. Where are the photos of Stroll positions on track?

If you look earlier in the video Stroll was up against the wall just as far off as Hartley was. In fact, I wondered if he might have touched the wall. Is that when Stroll should have backed off as well? Regarding Ocon/Hulkenberg. I would say the main difference between them and Stroll/Hartley is that Hulkenberg gave Ocon room. In fact you can see him going for the same line that Stroll takes, but sees Ocon and jinks right to give him room. I personally don't think Stroll knew he was there. Hartley was along side and Stroll just kept coming over. Hartley mirrored his moves. It's not like he initially aimed for the curb! Kudos to Hulkenberg for looking in his mirrors after leaving a gap open to see if someone was there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by F1Guy View Post
Two very different scenarios, but here we have some trying to compare both moves as the same.
Its fine if everyone doesn't agree, but I can roll my eyes as well. How about this... I can also be an ARS (Ambiguous rolling smiley) as well....

Richard

Last edited by Richard C; 12 Jun 2018 at 15:58. Reason: Driver name edit
Richard C is online now  
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one."
Quote
Old 12 Jun 2018, 20:29 (Ref:3828731)   #434
Richard C
Veteran
 
Richard C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,803
Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Regarding the performance of the new Honda power unit at Canada. There are a number of articles in which Gasly has praised the new unit. Here are two examples...

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/g...an-gp-1045560/

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/h...-decision.html

Richard
Richard C is online now  
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one."
Quote
Old 23 Jun 2018, 09:20 (Ref:3832625)   #435
F1Guy
Veteran
 
F1Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Antarctica
Driving dangerously
Posts: 1,406
F1Guy User has been fined for unsportsmanlike behaviour!
New "upgraded" engine introduced last race in Canada, it didn't last long in Gasly's car. And again the Honda engine has problems, this time in Harley's car.

Two races, two engines. What upgrade??

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/h...oblem-1047275/





F1Guy is offline  
__________________
When did I do dangerous driving???
Quote
Old 23 Jun 2018, 09:44 (Ref:3832626)   #436
F1Guy
Veteran
 
F1Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Antarctica
Driving dangerously
Posts: 1,406
F1Guy User has been fined for unsportsmanlike behaviour!
Just announced, engine is going back to Japan for investigation.

Hartley to start from the back of the grid.


Not good enough Honda! How long can this farcical situation continue??





F1Guy is offline  
__________________
When did I do dangerous driving???
Quote
Old 27 Jun 2018, 05:38 (Ref:3833279)   #437
Mekola
Veteran
 
Mekola's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Kiribati
Atlantis
Posts: 6,635
Mekola should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridMekola should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridMekola should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
The answer is at Stuttgart, my friend.
Mekola is offline  
Quote
Old 30 Jun 2018, 19:14 (Ref:3833813)   #438
Armco Bender
Llama Assassin and Sheep Botherer
Veteran
 
Armco Bender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
New Zealand
International Sheep Ambassador
Posts: 4,212
Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!
Pretty lack lustre effort in qualifying today even I'm thinking time is running on F1 career now...
Armco Bender is offline  
Quote
Old 1 Jul 2018, 13:58 (Ref:3833955)   #439
insane014
Rookie
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 62
insane014 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Why Gasty can't even come close to Ercsson? It's their flimsy chance to get single point
insane014 is offline  
Quote
Old 1 Jul 2018, 14:55 (Ref:3834005)   #440
Richard C
Veteran
 
Richard C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,803
Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard C is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by insane014 View Post
Why Gasty can't even come close to Ercsson? It's their flimsy chance to get single point
Not sure what happened. If I remember correctly just before Hamilton retired I think Gasly was 10+ seconds ahead of Alonso. Then he started going backwards quick.

Richard
Richard C is online now  
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one."
Quote
Old 1 Jul 2018, 15:13 (Ref:3834015)   #441
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,325
S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!
Tyres no doubt the main story today. Wouldn’t be surprised if that happened to Gasly too

Just a shame Hartley had that problem while running well after a good solid race
S griffin is offline  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Quote
Old 1 Jul 2018, 15:45 (Ref:3834030)   #442
EffectiveSprinkles
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 943
EffectiveSprinkles User had had their licence endorsedEffectiveSprinkles User had had their licence endorsed
Quote:
Originally Posted by insane014 View Post
Why Gasty can't even come close to Ercsson? It's their flimsy chance to get single point
Honda engine doesn't have the power. No surprise there.
EffectiveSprinkles is offline  
Quote
Old 1 Jul 2018, 20:59 (Ref:3834208)   #443
RogerH
Racer
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
New Zealand
Auckland
Posts: 456
RogerH should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridRogerH should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
Just a shame Hartley had that problem while running well after a good solid race
.... and Hartley had a better fastest lap in the race than Gasley.
RogerH is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Jul 2018, 08:49 (Ref:3834276)   #444
Armco Bender
Llama Assassin and Sheep Botherer
Veteran
 
Armco Bender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
New Zealand
International Sheep Ambassador
Posts: 4,212
Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!
Good drive by Hartley till the car died I've never doubted him for a moment.
Armco Bender is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Jul 2018, 09:10 (Ref:3834282)   #445
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,325
S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!S griffin is going for a new world record!
It seems Gasly's car was hobbled after the first lap contact with Vandoorne
S griffin is offline  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Quote
Old 5 Jul 2018, 02:02 (Ref:3834728)   #446
Razzzor
Veteran
 
Razzzor's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
New Zealand
New Zealand
Posts: 1,157
Razzzor should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRazzzor should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRazzzor should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I'm not sure it was that great. Gasly cleared off, did his pitstop, caught Hartley, passed him and was another 5sec clear before Hartley had even pitted. This with a damaged car as well?



Hartley would have closed in on newer tyres but never would have caught him. Ericsson was about 10 sec clear of Hartley, and he stopped on lap 45, caught and passed Gasly and finished 7 seconds ahead. But Hartley probably wouldn't have caught Gasly because the Saubers were faster in this race anyway, and he didn't pit till lap 54. So 11th at best for Hartley. Not great considering Alonso was behind him for the first part of the race.


RB just put Hartley on another odd strategy, going 54 laps on SS's. I assume they had a spare seat of new ultra's for the last stint. Only one other driver did more than 27 laps on those tyres and that was Sainz doing 36 laps. I wasn't watching the lap times but he must have been losing a good bit of speed in those last laps before pitting.
Razzzor is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Jul 2018, 05:38 (Ref:3834742)   #447
RogerH
Racer
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
New Zealand
Auckland
Posts: 456
RogerH should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridRogerH should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
It looks like Hartley's tyres held up OK as he did his fastest time on lap 42 (1.09.171) while Gasley's was on lap 38 (1.09.295).

Both were running on Super Softs but Hartley's were 42 laps old at his fastest lap while Gasley's were only 23 laps old (he pitted on lap 15).

Another factor was that Hartley had the "old" front wing while Gasley had the latest update.
RogerH is offline  
Quote
Old 8 Jul 2018, 10:29 (Ref:3835392)   #448
F1Guy
Veteran
 
F1Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Antarctica
Driving dangerously
Posts: 1,406
F1Guy User has been fined for unsportsmanlike behaviour!
Another brand new "special built" Honda engine for Hartley.

And a new MGU-K too. That's six engines for Hartley, and we haven't even started the tenth race of twenty for the season.







F1Guy is offline  
__________________
When did I do dangerous driving???
Quote
Old 8 Jul 2018, 10:33 (Ref:3835393)   #449
Armco Bender
Llama Assassin and Sheep Botherer
Veteran
 
Armco Bender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
New Zealand
International Sheep Ambassador
Posts: 4,212
Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!
Hopefully the wheels don't fall off his wagon before the end of the race...
Armco Bender is offline  
Quote
Old 8 Jul 2018, 10:35 (Ref:3835395)   #450
GTRMagic
Race Official
1% Club
 
GTRMagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Australia
Sell me this pen....
Posts: 46,571
GTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameGTRMagic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
”No Pace From The Engine” - Gasly
GTRMagic is offline  
__________________
Happy David Thexton Day, 21st March 2003
“I am not uncertain” - Dollar Bill Stern, Billions
“Fear stimulates my imagination” - Don Draper, Mad Men
“Everybody Lies” - Dr Gregory House
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Vettel has joined Toro Rosso/Now signed for 2008! Down F0rce Formula One 111 5 Aug 2007 17:18
Scuderia Toro Rosso Announce 2006 Drivers Spritle Formula One 11 7 Dec 2005 10:02
Toro Rosso Chassis wi11iamm Formula One 22 2 Dec 2005 18:47
Scuderia Toro Rosso OSTKURVE Formula One 2 25 Nov 2005 07:43
Squadra Toro Rosso renamed Scuderia Toro Rosso dazbaz_99 Formula One 21 24 Nov 2005 20:46


All times are GMT. The time now is 00:14.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.