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Old 7 Apr 2014, 14:16 (Ref:3389763)   #1
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The new Mercedes powered team for 2015.

Some talk from the paddock in Bahrain is that a number of current teams are putting their hand up for Mercedes power for next year, wanting to take over the McLaren engine supply.

Can't blame the teams for wanting Mercedes engines given the current form of the Mercedes PU. But which team will it be? Sauber has a contract with Ferrari for next year, but they do have history with Mercedes power. And it's well known that Ferrari supply B grade engines to customer teams, keeping the A grade ones for themselves. Just ask STR. Talk suggests Sauber are not that happy with the Ferrari units.

Lotus?? Perhaps Caterham? Caterham are slowly cutting ties with Renault in other areas of business, as things have not gone according to plan.

Or, the big rumour is that it's Red Bull Racing. RBR, even though having a contract with Renault, are apparently free to leave Renault power if they so choose. Marko has publicly commented if things don't change for the better by Monaco, RBR will be looking elsewhere. Rumour also has it Infiniti will be terminating their deal with RBR at the end of 2014. Red Bull Racing Mercedes??
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Old 7 Apr 2014, 14:52 (Ref:3389775)   #2
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is Merc willing to supply RB though? smarter to maintain their competitive advantage i would think.
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Old 7 Apr 2014, 15:00 (Ref:3389778)   #3
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Some talk from the paddock in Bahrain is that a number of current teams are putting their hand up for Mercedes power for next year, wanting to take over the McLaren engine supply.

Can't blame the teams for wanting Mercedes engines given the current form of the Mercedes PU. But which team will it be? Sauber has a contract with Ferrari for next year, but they do have history with Mercedes power. And it's well known that Ferrari supply B grade engines to customer teams, keeping the A grade ones for themselves. Just ask STR. Talk suggests Sauber are not that happy with the Ferrari units.

Lotus?? Perhaps Caterham? Caterham are slowly cutting ties with Renault in other areas of business, as things have not gone according to plan.

Or, the big rumour is that it's Red Bull Racing. RBR, even though having a contract with Renault, are apparently free to leave Renault power if they so choose. Marko has publicly commented if things don't change for the better by Monaco, RBR will be looking elsewhere. Rumour also has it Infiniti will be terminating their deal with RBR at the end of 2014. Red Bull Racing Mercedes??
Would Mercedes give a PSU to a top tier team that they think could beat them? I am talking RBR here and I think McLaren is a exception to that at the moment (prior contract about to expire).

Richard

Edit: chilibowl beat me to it!
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Old 7 Apr 2014, 15:21 (Ref:3389787)   #4
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It's not the first time Red Bull have wanted Mercedes power. Back in 2009, RBR was looking at Mercedes power for the 2010 season.

Adrian Newey: "The Mercedes engine enjoyed a good advantage over the rest of the field last year. The lap time difference was significant – several tenths of a second. And when you have to find that kind of performance from the chassis, that’s quite a big ask.
"But in the end Brawn and McLaren blocked us from having the Mercedes engine."


I doubt Mercedes will have an issue supplying RBR PU's if they wanted them. I think they would see it as a plus.
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Old 7 Apr 2014, 15:32 (Ref:3389792)   #5
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Surely there is a limit to the number of teams having the same power unit, iknow Mclaren will be Honda powered but surely the F1 people will want some variation of engines
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Old 7 Apr 2014, 15:56 (Ref:3389798)   #6
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It's not the first time Red Bull have wanted Mercedes power. Back in 2009, RBR was looking at Mercedes power for the 2010 season.

Adrian Newey: "The Mercedes engine enjoyed a good advantage over the rest of the field last year. The lap time difference was significant – several tenths of a second. And when you have to find that kind of performance from the chassis, that’s quite a big ask.
"But in the end Brawn and McLaren blocked us from having the Mercedes engine."


I doubt Mercedes will have an issue supplying RBR PU's if they wanted them. I think they would see it as a plus.
Never say never, but I wouldn't put money on it.

I think even the quote above is very telling. If I remember my history correctly, 2010 was the year that Mercedes bought into Brawn and was one step closer, but not quite yet to a full constructor? I would assume any engine supplier who is not already a constructor would want their engine in a winning car, but the moment they become a full team/constructor, the equation really starts to change and the comment above shows that. Brawn and McLaren recognized the benefit of having the Mercedes engine and blocked RBR. Both teams were successful at that time.

I think if Mercedes (as a constructor) was a mess and not winning races then I think they would agree to supplying someone like a RBR because they win either way. But given the current situation, Mercedes is winning both as constructor and engine supplier. There is little upside to having RBR beat them with their own engine. You can play up the engine side, but it sacrifices the image of the "Mercedes Team". And you have the entire situation with McLaren. I don't know the recent history. Did McLaren jump or where they pushed? I suspect a bit of both, but I doubt Mercedes is sorry at this point to see them leaving as a customer.

Ultimately I would ask the question of how Mercedes is structured from a corporate/management structure. Does "Mercedes F1" and "Mercedes AMG High Performance Powertrains" live under one umbrella or are decisions made as one? The closer those two live in the org chart the more likely decisions will be made as one.

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Old 7 Apr 2014, 16:05 (Ref:3389800)   #7
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So, bearing in mind what's been said above regarding RBR, is it fair to assume that Ferrari won't be trying to take over the old McLaren contract then?
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Old 7 Apr 2014, 16:23 (Ref:3389809)   #8
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So, bearing in mind what's been said above regarding RBR, is it fair to assume that Ferrari won't be trying to take over the old McLaren contract then?
The reaction in the pit by Luca Montezemolo when Alonso said he needed more power over the radio was priceless. If it can be secretly rebadged as a Ferrari they might do it!

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Old 7 Apr 2014, 18:27 (Ref:3389854)   #9
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I too cant see Mercedes wanting to supply Red Bull with an engine, when they are most likely to beat Mercedes
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Old 7 Apr 2014, 18:36 (Ref:3389860)   #10
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I doubt Mercedes will have an issue supplying RBR PU's if they wanted them. I think they would see it as a plus.
its a plus in that its the sale of another set of engines but is it a plus in terms of exposure? even Renault has complained about being overshadowed by the RB brand.

if Merc wins this year then the pressure is somewhat off but if they lose this year and then lose next year to a engine customer team i would imagine the people on the Merc board would begin to question the logic of a funding a factory effort. from the teams point of view this must be seen as a risk no?

if i was Lauda or Wolff i think i would be trying to block such a deal if i could.

curiously i wonder how much of this is RB engaging in some form of mind games with Merc, stir up some controversy between the team and the head office...plans within plans and all that.
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Old 7 Apr 2014, 22:43 (Ref:3389971)   #11
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I too cant see Mercedes wanting to supply Red Bull with an engine, when they are most likely to beat Mercedes
It would be absolutely suicidal.
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Old 8 Apr 2014, 02:35 (Ref:3390014)   #12
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Surely there is a limit to the number of teams having the same power unit, iknow Mclaren will be Honda powered but surely the F1 people will want some variation of engines
No. Be like the 70's. @ Ferrari's, 3 or 4 BRM's, a Tecno and a Matra and 19 Cosworth DFV's.... And it was still interesting technically.

The real problem would be financial and it wouldn't be so economical for Renault if they only had one or two teams. They need to have at least three just to make it economically worthwhile to them.
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Old 8 Apr 2014, 04:02 (Ref:3390026)   #13
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With rumours of a new team as early as 2015, could it be them who manages to sign a contract for the customer engine supply deal with Mercedes?
http://www.speedcafe.com/2014/04/06/...ed-early-2015/

Even if the team doesn't make it in to the Championship by 2015, it would be good for them to sign the contract and get the engines for 2015 to complete testing etc, ready for an entry in 2016.
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Old 9 Apr 2014, 07:22 (Ref:3390426)   #14
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Could Marussia F1 be in the market for a Mercedes driveline? The F1 team owner Marussia Motors have closed shop, and the F1 team is now under new management.
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Old 9 Apr 2014, 07:24 (Ref:3390428)   #15
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I doubt Mercedes will have an issue supplying RBR PU's if they wanted them. I think they would see it as a plus.

I don't. I think they'd be complete idiots. And clearly, they're not.
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Old 9 Apr 2014, 11:03 (Ref:3390493)   #16
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Could Marussia F1 be in the market for a Mercedes driveline? The F1 team owner Marussia Motors have closed shop, and the F1 team is now under new management.
Still havent figured out where a team with an almost completely bare car manages to find the funds to run all season, for several seasons, and pay an astronomical amount for an energy station...

...so unless Mr Chilton Sr has access to Mercedes Benz through his insurance concern....
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Old 9 Apr 2014, 13:15 (Ref:3390524)   #17
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Maybe MB should supply the entire grid.
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Old 25 Jun 2014, 08:06 (Ref:3426207)   #18
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Latest rumour doing the rounds is it could be Lotus.
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Old 25 Jun 2014, 09:44 (Ref:3426238)   #19
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The rumour might have some substance. Just found THIS on Adam Coopers blog.
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Old 25 Jun 2014, 10:10 (Ref:3426249)   #20
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An interesting prospect that should cause a number of the other teams (Red Bull & Ferrari for example) some concern.
The biggest thing against this as I see it is the poor payment history of Lotus F1...
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Old 25 Jun 2014, 10:18 (Ref:3426250)   #21
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The biggest thing against this as I see it is the poor payment history of Lotus F1...
Yes, that's true. But to have a Mercedes AMG ICE + complete driveline + ERS etc. would cost Lotus just under 75% of what it costs them now to use Renault ICE + RBT gearbox + ERS etc. It would definitely ease the purse stings a little bit for Lotus to use Mercedes AMG next year.
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Old 25 Jun 2014, 16:22 (Ref:3426367)   #22
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thats considerably cheaper.
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Old 26 Jun 2014, 00:18 (Ref:3426512)   #23
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Seeing Mclaren and Mercedes split for me is still strange. I guess it just sat well on the tongue. Similar to the Williams-BMW split. If there is one team I would like to see get that last coveted Mercedes engine supply, it would be Ferrari.
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Old 26 Jun 2014, 00:53 (Ref:3426525)   #24
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If there is one team I would like to see get that last coveted Mercedes engine supply, it would be Ferrari.

Oh that is good!
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Old 26 Jun 2014, 02:11 (Ref:3426548)   #25
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Yes, that's true. But to have a Mercedes AMG ICE + complete driveline + ERS etc. would cost Lotus just under 75% of what it costs them now to use Renault ICE + RBT gearbox + ERS etc. It would definitely ease the purse stings a little bit for Lotus to use Mercedes AMG next year.
What is the crashworthiness survival rate like for an MB PU?

Lotus need to know....
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