Nikita Mazepin

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

It raises an interesting discussion on whether or not people in the public eye should be treated the same, or better, or worse, than normal people.

Would he have lost his job for doing this if he was, for example, a welder? Or programmer? Or shop worker? I don't know the answer to that, honestly. Should an F1 driver be the same? Or treated better because it's a unique job (I don't think so), or treated more harshly because part of the job is being a role model? Or sacked because the governing body does not agree with his values?

It's something I've seen with many 'news' reports in the past. There is usually a sign of someone not being considered as typical, if their profession is highlighted as part of the report.
If a member of the Armed Forces gets into trouble, the story will typically start with 'Soldier caught doing......' I don't recall seeing the same with 'Supermarket checkout operator caught doing......'

Although I wonder whether this has something to do with the public's feeling of a sense of 'ownership' of the individual?
Public Sector employees are seen as 'belonging' to the taxpayer. I think the same is also true of celebrities and sports stars - their status comes (in part) from a public backing. You will hear in football etc. people talk about their team in a possessive tense - and it is this that leads to a differing standard against which people are held.

Make your living in the public domain, or work in the public sector, and the public seems to feel an entitlement to a stake in judging your behaviour. Make your living in private, and the entitlement is not there.

[Akrapovic]

Just to throw another variable into the mix - there was a nurse let go for refusing to follow COVID-19 restrictions, refusing to wear a mask in public, and making social media posts about not taking a vaccination. She was apparently behaved in her workplace, but outside not - now she lost her job.

I also agree with Peter that it's hard to link F1 to human rights. But the flip side of that is F1 is making a big point on getting itself involved in human rights. It's becoming harder and hard for F1 have excuses on this whilst they employe the hashtags that they currently do.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I also agree with Peter that it's hard to link F1 to human rights. But the flip side of that is F1 is making a big point on getting itself involved in human rights. It's becoming harder and hard for F1 have excuses on this whilst they employe the hashtags that they currently do.

Of course we then get to whether politics and sport should be mixed. My feeling is no, if I don't agree with what an organisation is doing, I don't support it. This of course is where the taking a knee and the t shirt thing becomes problematic. People can hold their own opinions on these matters but using the arena to promote them draws their employers into the issue. In effect F1 has become a reluctant player in what is a political issue. Not of course the important issues of racism and equality, but the organisation that is receiving the support.

Tricky subject.

But back to an employee v employer. Employers are held liable for the actions of employees, usually this is in terms of negligence, unsafe practices etc. in the workplace. With social media in the way, employers can't avoid scrutiny, thus employees are effectively ambassadors for their employers.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

But back to an employee v employer. Employers are held liable for the actions of employees, usually this is in terms of negligence, unsafe practices etc. in the workplace. With social media in the way, employers can't avoid scrutiny, thus employees are effectively ambassadors for their employers.

Yep. As a former civil servant, it was made very clear to us that we were not to be critical of our (sub) organisation or the CS generally (which ultimately included the government) on social media. As someone with a CS pension, it probably still applies. There was no doubt that if you were caught out, you would be sanctioned. You don't **** on your own doorstep or bite the hand that feeds you..... There are a lot of people who think they have the right to open their mouths on social media (usually before engaging whatever serves for their brains) and then wondering why they lose their jobs or get sanctioned in some other way.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

But back to an employee v employer. Employers are held liable for the actions of employees, usually this is in terms of negligence, unsafe practices etc. in the workplace. With social media in the way, employers can't avoid scrutiny, thus employees are effectively ambassadors for their employers.

Exactly

To add to the above, other factors include how public your role is, how contrary to the position taken by your employer, and how much attention you generate.

F1 drivers are about as public as it gets as they are walking talking billboards. The example above about the nurse. The nurse would be in a much less visible roll, but took to promote a position that was highly contrary to a key position of the employer. Lastly, its when break out beyond the usual background noise and get noticed is also a problem.

Richard

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by STAR Driver

If the FIA does not get involved, it reflects very badly on Formula 1, especially with their "We Race As One" slogan. Inaction is seen as complicity.


A petition has been started asking them to remove Mazepin from Formula 1 (http://chng.it/SwpY7Vrvbq) but at the very least they should have spoken on the subject by now.

Really it depends whether they feel it’s in their mandate. From what I hear Nikita and her were just having a little fun, although it wasn’t really right to show it to the world. Really they should do that kind of thing behind closed doors

Not sure that petition would work. At the end of the day if he hasn’t infringed anything and Haas are happy with him then we can’t do anything about it. I’ll say no more

[tux]

The FIAs statement is literally abysmal. The guy will get away with it because money trumps all.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by tux

The FIAs statement is literally abysmal. The guy will get away with it because money trumps all.

yeah i also thought it was pretty weak.

[bella]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Of course we then get to whether politics and sport should be mixed. My feeling is no, if I don't agree with what an organisation is doing, I don't support it. This of course is where the taking a knee and the t shirt thing becomes problematic. People can hold their own opinions on these matters but using the arena to promote them draws their employers into the issue. In effect F1 has become a reluctant player in what is a political issue. Not of course the important issues of racism and equality, but the organisation that is receiving the support.

i think if f1 is happy to make a move into countries where there's equality issues at significant odds to the prevailing culture and call it a positive move towards encouraging a regime to modernise, then it has a duty to allow itself to be a platform for similar issues we experience in the so called developed world in the west too.

whilst the business considerations are an important factor, we need to remember that there are male and female f1 and motorsport fans in the uae. young women are free to spectate - they turned out in droves to enjoy the formula e race there. why do we think it's a good idea to withold the joy of sport from women on the basis that they're being held back in other aspects of life?

honestly i'm mostly still astounded that the girl is so entitled that she was ok with her name being released and putting the blame for a violation of local decency laws on herself. that was the exact reason she was anonymised in most of the copies of the video that went round - to protect her. i also think it's pretty sad that she claims to think it's ok to humiliate herself like that - it's worrying how some younger women who think that giving "a friend" ownership of their body like that is an act of empowerment or a joke.

as for him... ignoring the sport for a second, we live in a society in the west where wealthy acts of stupid are forgiven and often held up for the lols. it'll be no surprise if he gets away with nothing more than several months of pr training and a mandatory social media person controlling his public accounts. he is a customer of haas in a sport where big bundles of money are increasingly rare and in a time where purse strings for all but the very richest are tightening.

he's not even going to get a kicking from his dad, let's be real.

[Knowlesy]

I think an apology is enough for this kind of incident, not one of those "if anyone was offended sorry lol" social media ones, but a Lewis Hamilton Malaysia '09 style public addressing of the situation.

That said I doubt it would actually embarrass Mazepin in the slightest so let's kill his career off.

He has built up a short history of odd remarks and drives like he has been drinking heavily so he probably has a short shelf life anyways. It catches people out eventually.*


*unless your dad buys the team

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Bella

whilst the business considerations are an important factor, we need to remember that there are male and female f1 and motorsport fans in the uae. young women are free to spectate - they turned out in droves to enjoy the formula e race there. why do we think it's a good idea to withold the joy of sport from women on the basis that they're being held back in other aspects of life?

Bella, the UAE is so far away from Saudi philosophically and fundamentally we really can't mention them in the same sentence.

Originally Posted by bella

honestly i'm mostly still astounded that the girl is so entitled that she was ok with her name being released and putting the blame for a violation of local decency laws on herself. that was the exact reason she was anonymised in most of the copies of the video that went round - to protect her. i also think it's pretty sad that she claims to think it's ok to humiliate herself like that - it's worrying how some younger women who think that giving "a friend" ownership of their body like that is an act of empowerment or a joke.

as for him... ignoring the sport for a second, we live in a society in the west where wealthy acts of stupid are forgiven and often held up for the lols. it'll be no surprise if he gets away with nothing more than several months of pr training and a mandatory social media person controlling his public accounts. he is a customer of haas in a sport where big bundles of money are increasingly rare and in a time where purse strings for all but the very richest are tightening.

he's not even going to get a kicking from his dad, let's be real.

Oh certainly if he was just a hooray Henry having a laugh you'd condemn it and move on. He isn't, he's aspiring to be a world champion in a very rich man's sport. That means he needs to grow up. Failing to deal with this will simply reduce the authority of the organisers. Obviously the money thing will make a big difference to the approach because without his cash Haas wouldn't be on the grid, but the corollary is that by accepting the gold, Haas and by extension F1 has lost any moral high ground. Add to that the rush to get him a Super-licence which he patently doesn't deserve and you see where things are going.

[RWill2073]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Really it depends whether they feel it’s in their mandate. From what I hear Nikita and her were just having a little fun, although it wasn’t really right to show it to the world. Really they should do that kind of thing behind closed doors

Not sure that petition would work. At the end of the day if he hasn’t infringed anything and Haas are happy with him then we can’t do anything about it. I’ll say no more

If it was consensual, then this is really not the biggest deal.

To comment on employee/employer dynamic here, it's a little different as haas is sort of the employee in that he pays them, in a roundabout way, correct? So it's almost like haas has to decide if they're ok working for (with) someone who they do not like or are embarrassed by, rather than mazepin having to toe any line. In a way, Haas' "stance" on this is whatever mazepin wants it to be or decides.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by RWill2073

To comment on employee/employer dynamic here, it's a little different as haas is sort of the employee in that he pays them, in a roundabout way, correct? So it's almost like haas has to decide if they're ok working for (with) someone who they do not like or are embarrassed by, rather than mazepin having to toe any line. In a way, Haas' "stance" on this is whatever mazepin wants it to be or decides.

That's an interesting take. Contracts are difficult but I assume he has a contract to drive for the team who provide the car and all the resources, ergo they manage him.

[S griffin]

He needs to learn. Even if it was just a bit of fun between them two, there are just some things that should be kept private and certainly not be put on social media. That is just asking for trouble. Certainly drivers have put the record straight in the past for things that they shouldn’t haven’t done, Hamilton in Malaysia in 09 is the best example, shows how to act with dignity and grace after a troubled situation

He’s still young, but even so, he is not exactly making life any easier for himself. He has obviously been a bit too emotional when it comes to run ins with other drivers. And some of his driving could do with toning down a bit. But it could all change in the future if he starts showing more talent and doesn’t keep doing silly unnecessary things. He needs to realise he has a chance to improve himself now he’s in F1. I hope he does, because it would mean that Haas’ signing would be quite a good one and shows there is more to him than money

But he needs to realise that he can’t expect people to run around after him now he has an F1 seat, he has to get on the straight and narrow and start acting more sensibly and responsibly

[RWill2073]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

It's something I've seen with many 'news' reports in the past. There is usually a sign of someone not being considered as typical, if their profession is highlighted as part of the report.
If a member of the Armed Forces gets into trouble, the story will typically start with 'Soldier caught doing......' I don't recall seeing the same with 'Supermarket checkout operator caught doing......'

Although I wonder whether this has something to do with the public's feeling of a sense of 'ownership' of the individual?
Public Sector employees are seen as 'belonging' to the taxpayer. I think the same is also true of celebrities and sports stars - their status comes (in part) from a public backing. You will hear in football etc. people talk about their team in a possessive tense - and it is this that leads to a differing standard against which people are held.

Make your living in the public domain, or work in the public sector, and the public seems to feel an entitlement to a stake in judging your behaviour. Make your living in private, and the entitlement is not there.

Make your living in the public eye, at the cost of the public and you absolutely held to a different standard. In the military one dui can get get you kicked out or demoted. In a regular job, not much happens, as long as it doesn't affect your job.

And shouldn't the public be entitled when it comes to public sector jobs or sports that depend on fans (the public) to stay in business? Seems pretty standard, that if public money or fan money goes in, the public or fan has a "stake" or say in how that organization uses that money or represents their customers with that money. Go too far away from what the public wants, and that money can dry up.

[RWill2073]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

That's an interesting take. Contracts are difficult but I assume he has a contract to drive for the team who provide the car and all the resources, ergo they manage him.

Yeah, it's weird and not a normal situation obviously. Haas can manage him, fire him and all, but if doing so basically sinks the business, who holds the power in the end?

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by RWill2073

Yeah, it's weird and not a normal situation obviously. Haas can manage him, fire him and all, but if doing so basically sinks the business, who holds the power in the end?

Which comes back to my point re the need for the cash.

[S griffin]

That’s the problem, if it happens behind closed doors, nothing would have been said, but for some stupid reason it was posted online. Obviously in the army you have an obligation to your country and you can’t afford to muck around in that service considering lives are at stake. In other jobs, the manager sets out their own code of conduct

At the end of the day the fans are important in any sport or art form, but we can’t control everything. Some fans can be a little self entitled, but at the end of the day it’s people’s choice to watch. We can voice our opinions, but it’s not necessarily going to change anything. Although sometimes voices can be loud enough something has to be done

[bella]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Bella, the UAE is so far away from Saudi philosophically and fundamentally we really can't mention them in the same sentence.

sorry, peter. need to go and do some uk/great britain/england style research and sort the geography out...

[chillibowl]

for sure there is a larger issues at play here, but a more tangible concern might be that F1 teams in 2020 are far more diverse work places and so to is the paddock/league itself more diverse.

allowing some people to act one way without real repercussions is not healthy practice for any organization but within sports franchises where team work is essential for success, toxicity is the enemy.

obviously i have no idea how Haas will deal with this, perhaps they will address the internal waves this will cause.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by bella

sorry, peter. need to go and do some uk/great britain/england style research and sort the geography out...

They are quite close geographically. There is a causeway from Bahrain to Saudi you can live in Bahrain and work in Saudi which some do. And you can drive from Saudi to the UAE.

[wnut]

...

[Armco Bender]

Luckily I grew up in an era when F1 drivers where thoroughly decent,honourable gentlemen....James Hunt would never have done anything like this.

[Peter Mallett]

Good point. But we have moved on now.

[S griffin]

The main difference is we didn't have social media in Hunt's time. Even so, there are some things you should definitely not show to the world