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Old 16 Jun 2009, 10:28 (Ref:2484378)   #1
chris bailey
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chris bailey should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Who's game is it anyway?

Reading the recent arguments about the 2010 championship regulations, I am at a loss to understand where FOTA are coming from. FOTA are just the teams. It's not their ballgame. Formula One is run by the FIA. They set the rules. The budget cap has been introduced because of the ludicrous spending of the manufacturer-supported teams in F1. Something had to be done, and Max has done it. Live with it, FOTA, or leave. Formula One does not need Toyota, BMW and Renault. It would get by (reluctantly) without Ferrari. The Sport cannot be held to ransom by a small number of (mostly) jonny-cum-lately bully boys with fat wallets. Let's get back to the free-for-all days of the late 1970's, when anyone could aspire to competing in F1 (Hello, and welcome to Manor Motorsport), even if it was a case of hiring a spare Lotus or Williams for their home Grand Prix. Those really were the days..........
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Old 16 Jun 2009, 11:17 (Ref:2484409)   #2
ECW Dan Selby
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Yeh I quite liked the idea of the customer cars being rebadged. Any means of racing!

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Old 16 Jun 2009, 12:03 (Ref:2484433)   #3
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climb should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridclimb should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Ah but the only problem is, what about TV rights money?
If Ferrari and some of the big leave, will the worldwide TV channels stay eager to pay what they currently do?
Hadn't been for that reason, Ferrari and co would have already been kicked off.
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Old 16 Jun 2009, 12:13 (Ref:2484441)   #4
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Lotusonpole should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridLotusonpole should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I was wodering if the manufacturers do leave or are effectively shown the door, who would provide the engines?

And true what would become of TV rights money and the effect of this?
Would TV be less interested and therfore would coverage be less reliable and/or extensive?
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Old 16 Jun 2009, 12:27 (Ref:2484453)   #5
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jab should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridjab should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridjab should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Lotusonpole View Post
I was wodering if the manufacturers do leave or are effectively shown the door, who would provide the engines?
Cosworth

And quite a few TV broadcasters have already expressed their interest in broadcasting a breakaway series after a poll was done in the paddock in Turkey (I think)
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Old 16 Jun 2009, 12:30 (Ref:2484457)   #6
ECW Dan Selby
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I have no doubt that a breakaway championship, with all the money put in to the advertising behind it, would do very well.

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Old 16 Jun 2009, 12:40 (Ref:2484465)   #7
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But it's an incredibly short-sighted idea. You only have to look at what happened Stateside, with CART breaking from USAC and TG breaking from CART, to see what a mess that made. And manufacturers dominating a series always ends in doom - just look at the WRC and its grand total of 2 works teams, and the same for the political mess that is the DTM
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Old 16 Jun 2009, 12:44 (Ref:2484471)   #8
ECW Dan Selby
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Yeh that's not to say it'll "all go well" etc, I just in the short term it will generate alot of publicity.

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Old 16 Jun 2009, 12:49 (Ref:2484476)   #9
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OZ_HCR32 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridOZ_HCR32 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Yeh , the FIA have made a mess of just about every major championship running under it...so i cant see any real interest next year if FOTA go do their own thing under the guidance of the Moto GP crowd
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Old 16 Jun 2009, 13:01 (Ref:2484489)   #10
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Flyin Ryan should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by chris bailey View Post
Reading the recent arguments about the 2010 championship regulations, I am at a loss to understand where FOTA are coming from. FOTA are just the teams. It's not their ballgame. Formula One is run by the FIA.
Yes, but if the teams think the series doesn't make sense, they are free to leave. And they are also free to run elsewhere if they desire.

Quote:
The Sport cannot be held to ransom by a small number of (mostly) jonny-cum-lately bully boys with fat wallets.
If Bernie Ecclestone and Max Mosley are not jonny-cum-lately bully boys with fat wallets, what are they?
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Old 16 Jun 2009, 13:05 (Ref:2484491)   #11
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veeten should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The problem is the difference between it and the aforementioned CART.

CART was a get together of racing teams and their managers (Gurney, Penske, et al), going against the then-USAC and IMS. The manufacturers of racing engines (Honda, Toyota, Mercedes, etc,)were on the sidelines, watching the outcome.

With FOTA, it is the manufacturers that are staging this, against the FIA and FOM.

Like CART, FOTA's major (manufacturer) members will have more incentive to micromanage the rules and regulations to their individual interests, especially one in particular. The individual that they choose to be the President of their organisation will look more of a figurehead than anything else, as the real power will reside among the manufacturers.

As this kind of politicing goes on, the very same smaller teams will feel manipulated, either by their votes or their association through their powertrain contracts, and have even less chance of being heard by the 'board of directors', and will leave.

And where will they go?... back to the original racing organisation, in whatever shape they have manifested themselves into.

History has taught us this, in many forms and facets. This will be just another example of pure intentions with hidden agendas, resulting in bad ends.
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Old 16 Jun 2009, 13:18 (Ref:2484500)   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veeten View Post
The problem is the difference between it and the aforementioned CART.

CART was a get together of racing teams and their managers (Gurney, Penske, et al), going against the then-USAC and IMS. The manufacturers of racing engines (Honda, Toyota, Mercedes, etc,)were on the sidelines, watching the outcome.

With FOTA, it is the manufacturers that are staging this, against the FIA and FOM.

Like CART, FOTA's major (manufacturer) members will have more incentive to micromanage the rules and regulations to their individual interests, especially one in particular. The individual that they choose to be the President of their organisation will look more of a figurehead than anything else, as the real power will reside among the manufacturers.

As this kind of politicing goes on, the very same smaller teams will feel manipulated, either by their votes or their association through their powertrain contracts, and have even less chance of being heard by the 'board of directors', and will leave.

And where will they go?... back to the original racing organisation, in whatever shape they have manifested themselves into.

History has taught us this, in many forms and facets. This will be just another example of pure intentions with hidden agendas, resulting in bad ends.
I'll agree with that, with the caveat that the CART-USAC war the manufacturers were a non-factor. The early '80s was dominated by the Cosworth engine and it wouldn't be until the late '80s when the manufacturers started coming in en masse.

As far as the current thing, if FOTA breaks away, everyone there will be looking out for their own self-interest like they did in CART where all the team owners hated each other just because it's natural due to the system they setup. The one good thing in this case would be that the teams mostly build their own cars, so you won't have chassis controlled by one owner and he picks and chooses his competition. (Screw you Carl Haas!)

The only difference I see here is you have one bad system where there's a dictator telling you what to do and there's little logic to their decisions which cost everyone a lot of money (we're going to force KERS on everyone and then we'll back off a bit and then we'll get rid of it altogether) and they're only imposing cost controls so that the shareholders in the sport can take even more money while giving the teams less and racing in far flung places with no fans like Abu Dhabi financed by corrupt governments, and there's another bad system where the teams are going to bicker with one another. So you're choosing between bad and bad.

If I was a team owner, I'd choose the breakaway with the understanding that it will create its own set of problems, just because there are so many hands in the money pool for F1 that those people that take part in graft and corruption that need to get weeded out of the sport by not receiving enough money that should be going into the sport to improve the spectacle instead of taking it out of the sport to finance corrupt individuals' lifestyles. The manufacturers running their own championship has a lot of flaws, but I would accept those flaws instead of Max and Bernie at this point. Not to mention, all those smaller teams that didn't get their entry accepted, well if there's a new manufacturer series I'm sure they'll allow you to enter.
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Old 16 Jun 2009, 13:31 (Ref:2484513)   #13
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I don't think that a breakaway series with only manufacturers will survive long, after all they would only have 8 different cars ( 16 entries unless more drivers per team would be allowed ).
The current economic climate does still not bode well for spending hundreds of million dollars/euros every year as all manufacturers have trouble in keeping theire heads above water at the moment. Car selling is still going down every month.
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Old 16 Jun 2009, 13:34 (Ref:2484515)   #14
ECW Dan Selby
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But the manufacturers have not seemed fased by this and would like to continue infinate amounts of spending..

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Old 16 Jun 2009, 13:45 (Ref:2484525)   #15
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It's not their ballgame.
Maybe is should be. F1 should not be run for the benefit of a small number of individuals or a management company.

As I said on another thread, I fundamentally disagree that the competitors cannot run their own series. While it may not be the way top level motorsport is run, there is precedent in other sports.

What is the best run sports organisation in the world? Answer: the NFL.

The NFL is run by the competitors. Each team has one representative on the Board. This Board appoints a Commissioner to run the sport on their behalf. All income, minus the sports running costs, is passed onto the competitors in an equal and transparent way. All competitors have an equal say i.e. 1 vote each.

On reason why this model is very successful is that in order for the sport to thrive, it has to be competitive and appeal to the fans. Otherwise, there is no income and everyone goes bust. Utlimately all income is generated by the number of fans who follow the sport - think about it. If the sport is run well, you get more fans = more income. Therefore the competitors have a strong vested interest to make the sport a success and appealing to the fans. One vote per team means that small teams have just as much power as larger rich teams (it started out this way in the NFL, but all the small teams quickly became large rich teams due to the success of the league).

I dont see why F1 cannot be run the same way. Have each of the 13 teams appoint someone to the Board of F1 who in turn hire someone to administer the sport on their behalf. Let all the income trickle down into the teams in an equal and transparent way. I guarantee you that if F1 did this, we would have more strong teams = better racing.
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