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Old 25 May 2020, 19:30 (Ref:3978273)   #51
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Renault the marque will probably end up as part of another manufacturer, there has been a lot of consolidation talk in the industry as a whole.

VW still has more dieselgate trouble to come and pay for, so I don't see VAG as likely, probably more likely is a Hyundai Kia merger now that relations have soured somewhat with Nissan.

Aston Martin is worth keeping an eye on the shares are now 35 pence having floated at £19. Toto is in there already as a personal investor and the new CEO will be from Mercedes-AMG. Daimler have a 5% stake at the moment and supply powertrains.

Stroll allegedly plans to make Aston more of a British Ferrari with a range of mid-engined sports cars - this is a massively lucrative segment to exploit and you are looking at higher screen price and then massive options packages - this sort of buyer likes to throw money at their car. Stroll has massive experience with luxury brands and he know that as much as Aston Martin is a car manufacturer it is also a brand with huge back catalogue of history. Look at Ferrari, it is recognised as one of the worlds' biggest brands.

I'd be a little surprised if Renault has their business absorbed by another car maker.For one thing the French government might not like the idea and for another the 35 hour week and fairly high social taxes might not make France the dream location for mass producing cars.It would also need a car maker with a pile of spare capital and in these unusual times no names come to mind.Would the Hyundai/Kia group be interested?Even if propped up by the French government as a car builder and aided by a bit of sponsorship by French institutions, its pretty difficult to see where a budget to allow any kind of Formula One team could be generated.Much less the pay for a driver who has won two championships.Kimoa on both sidepods ?
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Old 25 May 2020, 20:29 (Ref:3978283)   #52
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[QUOTE=S griffin;3978262]I could certainly see the F1 team having less association with the parent company Renault. I do think though Cyril will find a way to keep the team afloat, even if it means a few cutbacks

How many cutbacks would your mate Cyril have to make if Renault pull the pin and where would this pot of money come from?
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Old 25 May 2020, 23:49 (Ref:3978308)   #53
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I just bought a new Renault in February so they had better not 'disappear'!
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Old 26 May 2020, 07:54 (Ref:3978338)   #54
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Cyril is very much part of Renault. If they pull out he will go with them without a second glance back.
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Old 26 May 2020, 09:39 (Ref:3978353)   #55
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He hasn't always been with Renault though. He's made some noises about wanting to stay. Interestingly though he's saying he won't announce or decide his driver line up till the beginning of next year. So we might be a last minute thing with Alonso
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Old 26 May 2020, 11:00 (Ref:3978370)   #56
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He hasn't always been with Renault though. He's made some noises about wanting to stay. Interestingly though he's saying he won't announce or decide his driver line up till the beginning of next year. So we might be a last minute thing with Alonso
When wasn’t he with Renault?
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Old 26 May 2020, 11:25 (Ref:3978373)   #57
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i guess the poster is thinking of when he was involved with caterham?
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Old 26 May 2020, 14:58 (Ref:3978436)   #58
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Yeah, that’s right he was with Caterham before
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Old 26 May 2020, 16:30 (Ref:3978448)   #59
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He always worked for Renault. Was only on secondment at Caterham. He’s firmly family at Renault, albeit by marriage IIRC.
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Old 26 May 2020, 16:50 (Ref:3978454)   #60
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Thanks for clarifying. Makes sense with Caterham running Renault engines
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Old 26 May 2020, 18:17 (Ref:3978463)   #61
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Thanks for clarifying. Makes sense with Caterham running Renault engines
I think they got a discount on the engines for taking him!
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Old 28 May 2020, 00:24 (Ref:3978813)   #62
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I'd be a little surprised if Renault has their business absorbed by another car maker.For one thing the French government might not like the idea and for another the 35 hour week and fairly high social taxes might not make France the dream location for mass producing cars.

One thing to keep in mind with a '35 hour workweek' is you can run 2 crews 6 days a week. 2 12 hour shifts, 1 11 hour shift. Little more ingenuity you can run 24/7 this way.


Cirrus Aircraft runs this way in my town. My neighbor does 3x12s (gets paid for 40 here in the states). 35 hour work weeks gives more flexibility to scheduling shifts/times. GE also does the same thing with the windmill blades as well.


Now the taxes thing - that's a problem. Yea, absolutely.
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Old 28 May 2020, 01:44 (Ref:3978817)   #63
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further to p38’s comment, another issue that holds back expansion in france is that it’s an employees market, not an employers one - it’s hard to let someone go once you’ve committed to employing them and it’s expensive to keep them on. so where in other countries like the uk and the us companies will expand and contract depending on demand, it’s much harder to be as flexible there.
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Old 28 May 2020, 05:01 (Ref:3978827)   #64
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DiMaestro: on top of max hours a week there usually also is a max hours per day limit. In Germany employees must have a mandatory 11h rest period after work. Checking your emails after dinner triggers the rest period new (noone really enforces this but that's what's there on paper). Also, in Germany the max working time per week other where there are union arrangements is 45h and a max of 8h per day, 10h in truly exceptional circumstances for a very limited time.

So a 3*12h arrangement would not work.
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Old 28 May 2020, 06:59 (Ref:3978836)   #65
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All told France is possibly the most expensive country to have employees. Thus two shifts is double expensive.
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Old 28 May 2020, 07:11 (Ref:3978837)   #66
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DiMaestro: on top of max hours a week there usually also is a max hours per day limit. In Germany employees must have a mandatory 11h rest period after work. Checking your emails after dinner triggers the rest period new (noone really enforces this but that's what's there on paper). Also, in Germany the max working time per week other where there are union arrangements is 45h and a max of 8h per day, 10h in truly exceptional circumstances for a very limited time.

So a 3*12h arrangement would not work.

I didn't know that. That's well, very French of them I guess. :P There are variations on such a schedule, but I wasn't aware French Laws were so strict. 35 hours limits so much. If it was 34 or 36 you could find a way to change things up - like 4 9s, etc.



Now how do I become a French citizen?

--- side note, thank you for replying.
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Old 28 May 2020, 07:13 (Ref:3978838)   #67
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All told France is possibly the most expensive country to have employees. Thus two shifts is double expensive.

If 2 shifts double the output, and it costs twice as much - the one thing you have is a double output, not the worst case scenario, right? Cost per Unit should be the same? (this of course doesn't include downtime for maintenance & cleaning, but just a thought)

--- side note thank you for replying.
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Old 28 May 2020, 07:19 (Ref:3978840)   #68
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In my experience long term double shifting becomes progressivy less efficient. Also the need for suppliers to work outside of normal hours means increased procurement costs.
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Old 28 May 2020, 13:47 (Ref:3978930)   #69
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you also have increased maintenance too, so you need more kit to cover downtime for work that would otherwise be done at night.

it also assumes a level of demand for the product that may well not be there at the cost point versus say, offsetting it by producing a bigger percentage of the product in a cheaper location like eastern europe.
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Old 28 May 2020, 16:31 (Ref:3978955)   #70
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you also have increased maintenance too, so you need more kit to cover downtime for work that would otherwise be done at night.

it also assumes a level of demand for the product that may well not be there at the cost point versus say, offsetting it by producing a bigger percentage of the product in a cheaper location like eastern europe.

Yea, the level of demand is the tricky bit, isn't it?
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Old 28 May 2020, 16:38 (Ref:3978956)   #71
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News today that Nissan will close their factory and move production to Sunderland in the UK which will include some Renault models that share the same platforms.
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Old 28 May 2020, 19:31 (Ref:3978999)   #72
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I just bought a new Renault in February so they had better not 'disappear'!
A brand new one? You must have a brave appetite for depreciation!

Renaults are great used buys IMO as the values tend to drop more rapidly than German or Japanese cars.
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Old 28 May 2020, 23:16 (Ref:3979042)   #73
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A brand new one? You must have a brave appetite for depreciation!

Renaults are great used buys IMO as the values tend to drop more rapidly than German or Japanese cars.
Haha. Not quite. 2015. Very low km. So not quite but still new enough for me!
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Old 29 May 2020, 06:33 (Ref:3979059)   #74
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Renault cutting 15,000 jobs including almost 5,000 in France - this will be the end for the F1 team IMO. You cannot take 5bn bailout from the government and cut 5,000 jobs in France and continue to run an F1 team.
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Old 29 May 2020, 06:40 (Ref:3979061)   #75
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News today that Nissan will close their factory and move production to Sunderland in the UK which will include some Renault models that share the same platforms.
Closing their factory in Spain and expanding their UK operation - more bad Brexit news, oh hang on!
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