Chevron B19

[driftwood]

John Rowe has confirmed today that he bought the ex vega engined car from the team, without the engine and gearbox.this would save him lots of money and weight as FG400 is heavier than FT200 He fitted an FT200 and Lotus twincam, then an FVA/C then a BD.The car was sold into Botswana about 3 years later and almost immediatly again to Fred Goddard in Bulawayo.Stirling Moss bought this car, a guess would be in the mid 80's

The Abrahams car, n.o.30,was returned back to the UK straight after the last race of the Springbok series January 1972.Abrahams was friendly with Derek? Worthington who was associated with Lola, and wanted to change the Chevron for a Lola.OK this makes sense as i have Derek Worthington advertising B19 for sale- i suspected he was selling Abrahams car as his sponsor Rays restaurants buy in 73 Lola T292 HU65 and in 74 /5 Derek Worthington drives this car in euro races along with Nigel Clarskosn Richard Scott also later Geoof richardson places advert to sell B19 30 quotes the number in advert Abrahams etc

I agree it would make sense for RRR to upgrade their 2 remaining cars to B21 spec in early '72, they were almost brand new.However the Bridges car is still reffered to by A/S as a B19 well into the season, only later being mentioned as a B19/21 and then a B21.Bear in mind it already had the '72 spec chassis.technically B21 is wider in cockpit than b19 and would need b21 bodywork ftted as b19 will not sit correctly i assume B19-26 or 8 whatever its number is is also the same chassis number but B21 plated for 72-- Bottom line is now of the 3 B19 cars in ZA only 1 remains the others 17 and 30 returned to EEC over the years- as a side note any idea on Bruce vander Merwe B19 he has- notraced for 3 years i think the son Alan last raced in at Brands ORWELL event

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by driftwood

But then both vanish. Could Red Rose have returned their cars to the factory and had them rebuilt into B21s?RRR have B21# 7 & 8 why sell a B19 when all you need to do is buy new chassi body and swap over the parts ( sell off B19 parts to another car owner? ) and also have B21-71-19 and 29 i would suspect another upgrade car so 2 cars die and 2 more born at same time

Some of the later B19s had a wider chassis and were probably closer to B21 specification than they were to original B19 specification. I'm sure B19s evolved as the season went on.

I was inclined to believe that Red Rose's two surviving B19s became B21s but Ian makes a good point that B19-71-32 continued as a B19 right through 1972. Also, excluding the Tondelli cars, I am now able to account for the location of 22 of the other 29 B19s. The only ones left are Ed Swart's B19-71-10A, the Siffert/Larrousse B19-71-16, the mysterious Siffert-supplied B19-71-18, the Kerston/Schickentanz B19-71-22, the mysterious Red Rose Racing B19-71-23, Red Rose's South African car B19-71-26 and the works/Gunston B19-71-27. I'll bet that three of these are explained by the Squadra Tartaruga car, Hans Affentranger's car and Theo Kinsbergen's car leaving only four more to find. So it may be that no B19s were rebuilt into B21s, however surprising that may seem.

[Team Gunston]

Just wanted to point out that Affentranger's car didn't have a standard or "works" rollbar. Not even a B16 model with additional welding like the one seen on the Febbraïo so-called B19...

I'll e-mail you a photo tonight, Allen, along with pics of Arthur Blank with the ex-Opel B19. I think they are of interest.

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by Team Gunston

Just wanted to point out that Affentranger's car didn't have a standard or "works" rollbar. Not even a B16 model with additional welding like the one seen on the Febbraïo so-called B19...

I'll e-mail you a photo tonight, Allen, along with pics of Arthur Blank with the ex-Opel B19. I think they are of interest.

Excellent - thanks.

And I've just found a picture of the Theo Kinsbergen car too. And just received a great batch of 1980s and 1990s B19 pictures from Jeremy Jackson. And even Drifty's trying to operate a scanner at the moment but it's set at postage stamp size!

It's all progressing rather well at the moment

More and more pictures please everyone!!

[Team Gunston]

Another B19 was running in France in 1972 with Emile Elias, under the "Peter Rand Racing Team" banner. It replaced a B8 and I really wonder where did it come from. If you get the info, please, let us know.

[allenbrown]

I only have one pretty poor picture from Echappement of the Elias car. Do you have a better one?

[Team Gunston]

I'll send you a pretty good one of Elias with the others.

[driftwood]

also look on Martin Krecjis racing sports car site for various car photos
i sent you 1 link as a taster
you get bottle of wine opened and start trolling every race you will find nice collection of 19 21 cars some change livery over the seasons

[allenbrown]

Really? Martin's Krejci's site? For photos of sports cars? Good heavens - why didn't I think of that?

[allenbrown]

For the benefit of readers unfamiliar with my relationship with Drifty:

irony –noun. The use of words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning.

[allenbrown]

Monza 1000 kms Tuesday 25 Apr 1972 (MN 4 May 1972 pp6-7)

U. Dupont/Fabrizio Noe ("B19-FVC")
AJ. Frey/Ettmüller ("B19-FVC")
AG. Serblin/Jacopo Trivellato ("the Italian engine tuner", "B19-FVC")
AK. "Tondelli BT1600", "modestly named after himself", 1600cc "B19-FVA")

I've given the so-called Tondelli BT1600 a separate letter as we can't know (yet) whether it's the same car he raced in 1971. Remember that Tondelli bought six B19s and we don't yet know who they all went to.

Cadwell Park Sunday 30 Apr 1972 (MN 4 May 1972 p12)

D. Frank Aston (3rd in both races; FVC).

Mondello Park Sunday 30 Apr 1972 (MN 4 May 1972 p13)

C. Eddie Regan (2nd in libre race; FVC)

I don't have to keep saying that Regan's and Aston's cars are ex-DART every time do I drifty?

[driftwood]

For the benefit of readers unfamiliar with my relationship with DriftyI have just had your wife on phone concerned at our "relationship" she would like to know more!


I've given the so-called Tondelli BT1600 a separate letter as we can't know (yet) whether it's the same car he raced in 1971. Remember that Tondelli bought six B19s and we don't yet know who they all went to.does the honoruable writer have a specific list of Italian B19 runners from 71 and 72 yet to mull over- i know 2 or 3 drivers are likely to share same chassis especially if in a team like Brecia Corse or Trivellato type set ups and some will circuit race and other mountain race

I don't have to keep saying that Regan's and Aston's cars are ex-DART every time do I drifty?well i have possibly mad ethe point on a few occaisons to avoid confusion that thes ecars are chassis 5 and 6 and not yet identified as to who had what yet- however IF you keep insisting on telling everyone that we have a "relationship" i may insist that you carry on with this concept-- IF i am to be "outed" i hope it will be someone rich n famous im "involved" with so i can sell my kiss n tell story and buy 1 B19 chassis 10 car of some description

[allenbrown]

Spa 1000 kms 7 May 1972 (MN 11 May 1972 pp12-14)

-- Hine/Bridges ("B19/21" but presumably a B21)
-- Bosch/Josa ("B19/21" but presumably a B21)
J. Gray/Lepp
-- Heavens/Garton ("B19" but presumably a B21)
-- Twaites/McInerny ("B19/21" but presumably a B21)
AE. Humble/May ("B19/21")
-- Smith/Welpton ("B19/21" but presumably a B21)
-- Robinson/Migault ("B19/21" but presumably a B21)
U. Dupont/Fabrizio Noe ("B19")

All had 1.8 FVCs except Hine/Bridges who had a 1.9 Alan Smith FVC. They finished an excellent third.

Bishopscourt [7 May?] (MN 11 May 1972 p5)

C. Eddie Regan (5th? in libre race; FVC)

Harewood 23 April (MN 11 May 1972 p14)

S. Reg Phillips (won class; FVC)

Prescott 7 May (MN 11 May 1972 p24)

S. Reg Phillips (third in class)

My dear Drifty, have I really neglected to give you the Tondelli number? They are B19-71-1, B19-71-12A, B19-71-14, B19-71-17, B19-71-19 and B19-71-21. The Abarth-engined car will be one of those, as will Tondelli's own car and Alberti's but then I start to struggle. I don't have 1971 Autosprint to look at Italian hillclimbs. I suppose it's possible Tondelli sold one into Switzerland.

[allenbrown]

Wiscombe Park 14 May (MN 18 May 1972 p32)

S. Reg Phillips (third in class)

[allenbrown]

Salzburgring (E2lSC Round 3) 21 May 1972 (MN 25 May 1972 p10)

-- Hine "B21" 1.9 Smith FVC
-- Juncadella "B21" 1.9 Smith FVC
-- Bosch "B21" normal FVC
-- Dieter Quester "B21-BMW" 276 bhp "unofficial" engine
-- Canon: Burton "B21" 1.9 Smith
-- Canon: Wollek "B21" 1.8 FVC
-- Tucket: Fletcher "B21"
-- Olivar (Graemiger-prepared)
AG. Automobil Club Vicenza: Serblin (Trivellato engine)

[allenbrown]

Targa Florio 21 May 1972 (MN 25 May 1972 pp14-16)

-- Scuderia Citta dei Mille: "Amphicar"/Ignazio Capuano B21 (2-litre alloy Hart)
W. Giovanni Alberti/Franco Bonetto
AK. Tondelli/Formento "Tondelli BT1600", "B19-FVA"

[allenbrown]

Nurburgring 1000 kms 27 May 1972 (MN 1 Jun 1972 pp12-13)

-- Hine/Bridges B21-Smith
-- Bosch/Peter Hanson B21
-- Tuckett/Fletcher B21
-- Burton/Craft B21
-- Heavens/Garton B21
-- Twaites/McInerney B21
-- Robinson/Migault B21
J. Gray/Gaydon B19
U. Dupont/Blancpain B19
AE. Humble/Nick May B19
AJ. Frey/Ettmuller B19

Rufforth Saturday 26 May 1972 (MN 1 Jun 1972 p24)
-- Smith "B19/21" (4th in libre race)

[Chris Townsend]

Originally Posted by driftwood

does the honoruable writer have a specific list of Italian B19 runners from 71 and 72 yet to mull over- i know 2 or 3 drivers are likely to share same chassis especially if in a team like Brecia Corse or Trivellato type set ups and some will circuit race and other mountain race[/COLOR]

This honorable writer does have a full run of 1972 Autosprint [actually they belong to the honorable AF] and I will try and have a look later this week, assuming I have ANY time, and if not will haul some back to Belgium to play with next weekend

Chris

[driftwood]

Mr Brown
well aware of relevent chassis numbers of Tondelli was questioning the "piloti con machina" to see if we do get 6 cars at a race or just 3 with 3 or 4 drivers so we can start to investigate who / what cars may race on mountains only and circuits only

also regarding the 1972 race results yr now posting
may i humbly suggest you apportion chassis number alongside these cars as we do KNOW what they are plus they should also be posted on B21 thread
Tucket Fletcher B21 -1
Twaites B21-2
Smith/welpton B21-3
Robinson B21 4
Olivar B21 6
Hine B21- 7 or 8
Burton B21-12A
Quester B21 15
Heavens B21 16

[allenbrown]

This is the B19 thread so I'm not going to do that in case someone gets confused and starts posting B21 information here. When I post the same race information on the B21 thread, I will add chassis numbers from time to time.

[allenbrown]

OK, returning to the actual reason for this thread, here is some new information about a Chevron B19. Well, new to me anyway.

NSCC Aintree Whit Monday Formula libre 28 May 1972 (MN 1 Jun 1972 p25 and AS 1 Jun 1972 p51)

Sports car class winner: "R Vincent" (AS) or "B. Vincent" (MN) Chevron B19 (1.8 FVC says MN)

Neither Motoring News or Autosport mention Vincent in the body of their reports. "D.B.G" covered Aintree for MN; Mike Godfrey for Autosport.

Those of you with previous on the Brabham BT30 thread will already be scarred by the name Vincent and will be now dreading the words "Cranberry Lodge Garage". Sure enough, in Drifty's much-appreciated survey of Autosport classified ads appears the entry:

1 Feb 1973 B21 new Sept 72 never raced- Wigan Cranbury Lodge Garage

Yes Drifty, I am aware that a new B21 in Sep 1972 isn't the same as a B19 in May 1972 and don't need it pointed out.

So, does anyone remember the Vincent family from Cranbury or Cranberry Lodge Garage in Wigan?

[driftwood]

moan moan moan! my argument is the info recently posted is also b21 stuff
but what do i know?
I did ask Brian Robinson if he knew of this company or car he said it was new to him!
i tried to google the name while ago but zilch

[allenbrown]

If you google "Cranberry Lodge Garage" you gets lots of hits. Looks like it still exists.

[allenbrown]

One more so I can get these magazines off my desk:

Croft Sunday 27 May 1972 (MN 1 Jun 1972 p27 and AS 1 Jun 1972 pp30-37)

O2. George Silverwood "B19/21" [MN] or "B19" [AS] ("rebuilt since BOAC shunt, and with a 1900cc Alan Smith FVC")
-- Dave Welpton "B19" [MN] or "B21" [AS] (Pete Smith's car)

[allenbrown]

I spoke to John Larkin an hour ago, Bob Vincent's son-in-law. Bob has indeed passed on.

John's recollection is that the car was a B19 and was bought new from Chevron. It wasn't raced, just practiced at Silverstone. It was sold to John Collier in Ireland.

This raises as many questions as it solves as it doesn't agree with the known race at Aintree in May 1972 and an advert that Vicent placed in Autosport in Feb 1973 for a new B21 built Sep 1972. There is an unexplained B19 in Ireland driven by Arthur Collier but that appears before Sep 1972. I need to think this through and then call John back. He has offered to dig out a picture of the B19 in the meantime.

BTW, the Brabham BT30 run in 1974 was nothing to do with Bob or his son.