São Bernardo Street Circuit - SP - Brazil

[cosmicpanda]

Originally Posted by Purist

Cosmicpanda, given the physics of the situation, chicanes seem to lead to more accidents at that given place than normally occurred on the pre-existing straight, corner, etc. For instance, I'm not sure there's been a "clean' first lap of the Italian Grand Prix at Monza since 1971 (The chicanes were installed for the 1972 season.). One big thing to remember is that fatalities in past decades usually had a lot more to do with the barriers and car construction than the track configuration. Simply put, it's a moot point to attempt to protect the driver at 150+mph when a hard impact at just 80-100-mph will likely have severe consequences. Also, chicanes with those old cars, especially those with drum brakes, would have been a VERY BAD IDEA.

There were chicanes at Monza before 1971, weren't there?

It's interesting that you talk about the physics of the situation, yet fail to consider that a car travelling at 80 mph would have less momentum than a car travelling at 150 mph. So, in a crash, say, the car travelling at 80 mph would require less force to slow down than the car travelling at 150 mph, and the driver would be less likely to be injured.

But I do think that a bad chicane can create boring racing.

[Purist]

The trouble is, the crashes occur in the braking zones, when the cars a still going quite fast. And even the late incidents involve a car going significantly faster than the chicane will allow when the car reaches turn-in. A major point I would make is that you can still have a 230-mph incident at Monza, but without the chicanes, you'd still only reach maybe 250-mph, which isn't that much more force in impact than what they can do right now.

[cosmicpanda]

but it's safer to have a 230 mph accident at the chicane than at the corner after it, because there's more runoff and accident protection there.

edit: or at least, I would hope so.

[V8_TURBO]

anyone seen alex zanardi's crash? It was horrible to watch. pictures show parts of his leg in the air.

[Purist]

I can tell you that there is MUCH MORE run-off at Curva Grande than at the Variente della Roggia (formerly Variente Goodyear). In addition, I'm pretty sure there is significantly more run-off at the first Lesmo than there is at the Variente Seconda.

Another issue I have is that at many chicanes, if you run straight off for some reason, there's a pretty good chance you're going to re-enter the track, and do so with significantly more speed than the cars that negotiated the chicane. This could be particularly dangerous in the case of throttle or brake problems.

I will admit I have had my perspective colored by a couple particular incidents. The first races I saw on circuits that had significant chicanery were the 2000 German and Italian Grands Prix. At Hockenheim, two or three cars came together at the third chicane shortly after a restart and a loose wheel hit and rebounded off the nose of Alesi's car. At Monza, a few cars got together at the first chicnae. Fortunately, the worst of that was that one car stalled. At the second chicane, Rubens took out the two Jordans, caught out Coulthard, and then de la Rosa hit a wheel and vaulted end-over-end finally landing partially on top of Rubens' Ferrari. I'm pretty sure in the midst of the dust and smoke that the Arrows also passed right over top of DC's McLaren. This was also the incident that saw a track marshall killed by flying debris.

T8-T, I saw the race coverage where Zanardi crashed. Please have a bit more tact. It's comments like that that make me glad I can't see all the nitty gritty details.

Nicky, I know it's a touchy thing, but I've never seen the 1994 San Marino Grand Prix, and all the camera angles I've seen weren't all that good, or the camera feed cut out before the car left the road. I would, just for once, like to get a decent idea of what actually happened. I've heard a number of stories, and I'd like to put this one to rest. if you'd rather not get into it though, I understand.

[cosmicpanda]

http://www.euspaceimaging.com/conten...onza-Itlay.jpg

the first chicane at Monza seems to have plenty of runoff. And there is less runoff at the first lesmo than at the second chicane.

Doesn't really seem to be that much at the Parabolica...

[Purist]

Yeah, you're okay at the first chicane if you go straight, but ifyou overcook it, but still try to make the turn-in there isn't much run-off to the right at all. There's plenty of run-off at the first Lesmo, particuarly because a car that goes off isn't likely to just go straight off at the end of that short straight. Parabolica has plenty of run-off at the entrance, which is where you would be likely to go straight off. The rest of the corner doesn't need a much because to get through the entry you must scrub off quite a bit of your speed. Also, Parabolica has an increasing radius.

[nickyf1]

Originally Posted by Purist

Nicky, I know it's a touchy thing, but I've never seen the 1994 San Marino Grand Prix, and all the camera angles I've seen weren't all that good, or the camera feed cut out before the car left the road. I would, just for once, like to get a decent idea of what actually happened. I've heard a number of stories, and I'd like to put this one to rest. if you'd rather not get into it though, I understand.

I did see one video that shows an onboard of his last lap and it cuts off Just right before the impact.

[V8_TURBO]

You sent me a pm of the video, nicky, so why not just post it?

[nickyf1]

I didnt want to post it because it would be going way off topic and I thought that some people mabey would'nt like it if I posted it.

[Purist]

I think we've already headed off on a tangent anyway.

I got the PM, but the link took me to a Netscape search results page, which didn't have anything on it that looked remotely motorsports related.

[nickyf1]

whoops, sorry about that.

[Knowlesy]

I have to apologise for seemingly missing this thread.

Can we please make an effort to get back on track?

Thanks.

[nickyf1]

I Love the track, I think its a great track to start your Ten-Tenths membership, it trully is a great track! I blame myself for going off topic.