History of a Lola T492 Sports 2000 chassis?

[wolfhound]

Does the Lola you have have evidence of being used in Group6 form ie air jacks and long range tanks? If so could it also have a large rear tube frame to cope with group6 spec and this was then used in later S2000 spec cars?

[911thillclimber]

Wolf hound:

Yes, my Lola has holes (unused) in the front side pontoons for air jacks but no evidence of jacks in the rear. There are just 2.5" holes neatly cut but no reinforcing etc, so not sure they are for jacks..
The fuel tank is large, holds about 7 gallons and looks very 'factory'.

I was told by a renowned T492 specialist that the small 1" square rear tubes tended to fatigue crack and the factory went to 1.5" wide x 1" tube to stop this from about HU47. 101 490/2's were made in total.

Have had a reply from Colin Pool:

The car Colin had for sale was a 490/2 and was crashed very badly at a corporate day, it was not HU6.
He met Tony D back then and remembers his Skoda based on the Lola 290. He is digging into the records in case there is something else.

So, that's that little avenue closed, but clarifies things a touch.

[Nordic]

Don't forget there was short lived series of long distance 2 driver Sports 2000 races in the the era this car was around. That may account for the tank size. An unraced project?

Did you get any more info on the Thundersports 'Lola Gremlin', entered by 'Doug Wood Racing' who comes from Kent. I strongly suspect his was sports 2000 Lola that was modified and your car seems to have strong connections to the Kent area.

[911thillclimber]

I tried before when you suggested it so I tried again today.

He raced a Porsche 934 also so I've asked on a Porsche forum if his name is known from the period.
Sadly, no pics of the Group 6 car and it certainly was not successful hence it's name! It was entered 4 times, with DNQ/DNF etc....
This is like being in a very dark tunnel hoping for a ray of light!
I had hoped to solve this mystery before the thread hits 100,000, not looking too good.

Car comes back Saturday and I have a small list of big jobs to do before the season opener at the end of March.
Championship regs have just arrived so it getting close!

[911thillclimber]

The current owner of HU6 has sent me loads of new pics of the car now and the chassis plate(!).
Time to focus on the hill season looming!

[911thillclimber]

After a long time out of the garage, the Lola is back home.

Bob had it on the rollers and hit 254 bhp and then called me...

He found a 'miss-fire' at 4500 rpm registered on the Roller display (sensor off the plug leads) and a flicker on the rev counter too (sensor off the dizzy)
Since running the car people have told me it sounds like it is missing on load up the hill between the back fires etc in the early Weber days as well as recently.

We decided, or rather Bob told, me to go back to coil/points/condenser (as I do not have a CDS box) and see if that fixes things. He has just done a historic rally 911 on the same and it runs perfectly, so out came the Hall-effect system and ballistic coil and in went a repeat of the rally engine system.
Misfire gone, and ignition curve changed (!) and after some hours on the rollers all is well.
It even starts with two prods and has a dead even tick over and the throttle response is electric.
Could this old 'hot' system be the cause of the rotor arm spark out too?

Whatever, the Hall system and coil are in the 'bad idea' bin and the car is back for prepping for the season, just 8 weeks or so away.
Gearbox behaved also which all leads to a good start.
I hope it stays this way.

Amusingly, the rear of the car is covered with shredded AVON slick tyre. It needed new boots but this has finished the rears off now.

Home work from Bob (everyone gives me a list of things to do) is simply a new throttle cable as corrosion has made the current one sticky. It was a cheap kit car one from a show so i need a super free moving Teflon lined one.

Thus:
Good clean
Good polish
Fresh brake fluid
Hinge the front clam shell if I can
Fresh cut slicks
Get trailer lights to work as they all went out on the way back from Bob's yesterday.
New racing boots
Be nice to upholster the seat in period diamond pleat for grip to stop me sliding up under acceleration....the cause of the crunched gearbox
Get seat belts tighter....cause of crunched ba..s if done badly

Game is on again!

[SAMD]

Originally Posted by 911thillclimber

Thus:
Fresh cut slicks

Graham, leave your new slicks as late as possible. Tyres start to go off from the day they are made. So the later you leave them the better. Unless of course you are buying old stock, in which case it doesnt matter.

[911thillclimber]

Yes indeed!
Early march will be right before the rush at BMTR gets underway.

The cut slicks are hand done so need ordering in advance.
They will allow me to run reasonably hard in the wet, a major challenge last year on a few heart-stopping occasions.

BMTR told me if they are stored in the dark and at a cool temperature then all is well, but you never know. Fresh is best!

[Clive Brown]

Originally Posted by Clive Brown

I wonder just how long the rotor arm might have been like this, and what could have caused it. Duff coil? Failing ignition box? (In that order) Given the weird and wonderful symptoms that your car has demonstrated, it is surely worth checking everything out!

I should have got some money on this....(sigh)

[911thillclimber]

[PeterMorley]

On race-cars.coms parts for sale board someone is offering the chassis plate from T492 HU47 for sale.
Could be a way of filling those empty pop-rivet holes...

[911thillclimber]

Indeed, and emailed the gent a week ago!
USA car totalled and crushed so definitly dead and gone,but of course, not the real deal.

I had a blank and new plate with the car!
For insurance, the car had to have a fixed plate and number.

Not knowing what number it is i invented my own and stamped the plate.

I look forward to the day i write to Lola with a valid substantiated claim to the right number and get the new plate back all stamped up

By look of it this will be when I sell the thing!

[911thillclimber]

Just been looking at the Sport 2000 site. Lots of nice S2000 there all with chassis numbers and looking good...
Anyway, on my thread there got to browsing the content and I'm not sure if I've shared this info, so here goes.

After a tele call with Chris Alford he recalled a Golden Yellow T 492 that in the 80's went through this little lot

It was owned by a Doug Moseley
He sold it to a John Pointon
He sold it to an Ian Connell of Tunbridge Wells

The Lola records show a Golden Yellow 492 was sold to Titan Cars. It was a late car so would have the large tube rear chassis frame (like mine)

Does this stir any thought please?

The Chassis number of the Titan car is not 'claimed' on the Lola site.

[paulSenna]

Originally Posted by 911thillclimber

It was owned by a Doug Moseley

More likely Dud Moseley maybe?

[911thillclimber]

Could easily be that name.
Is there a link to Dennis and this car.
Maybe Dennis never raced it and that's why he is so invisible?

Nearly at 100,000 hits, just got to break cover soon!

[Clive Brown]

Look at the second place driver in 1973:

http://www.arena-essex-raceway.co.uk...rld_final.aspx

Unless my memory fails me, this is 'Demolition Den' from Herne Bay.

[911thillclimber]

Has to be?
If he was a Young Gun (or certainly fearless in that game) then he is young enough to still be with us!
So, he DOES exist...
Wonder if he still is involved in Banger Racing down there?

Just where did you dig that up from Clive?

The Arena still runs to this day.
I've emailed them!
You never know your luck..

[peter thurston racing]

Graham ring me on 07817 426552 and I can answer some of your questions,can't do it on here as will take to long and I hate typing.Regards Pete.

[911thillclimber]

Will do peter after tea that has just been called!

About 7.30pm.
Thank you.
Graham.

[Clive Brown]

'Demolition' Dennis Humphries was Captain and founder of the Crazy Gentlemen banger racing team. He predominantly raced with Promotasport Raceway International on their south-eastern tracks; Coombe Valley, Crayford, Iwade, and Lydden, as well as Arena Essex and Haringey.

I'm fairly sure that he then took up circuit racing, with most of his outings being at Lydden, where he was a regular.

I'm not sure that he ever raced the/your T492; he may have been something of a wheeler-dealer in lower formulae race cars.

[911thillclimber]

Just spent a good hour chatting to a very helpful Peter about Dennis.
This has certainly enlightened me about Dennis.

He does seem to have been close to the Banger racing 'circuit' and did though dabble in FF.

He may have left Essex in the late 80's to Northampton, possibly the Oval there.
Oddly that was exactly where I first saw motor racing while in short trousers!

Peter recalls Dennis in FF and had a good results at Lydden.
Interestingly, Peter once had a need to visit Dennis and recalls seeing a sports racer with an Orange body at his home...

I will have the spelling wrong here, but John 'Faborin' was asked by Brian Davis to finish off the installation of the RS 200 genuine engine for Brian.
The Lola might have had a Skoda body by then, and this ties-up with Mike insisting the body was white and not Pink.
The car had no body when John F did the turbo pipes.

Peter recalls seeing the Pink Lola on the odd occasion at Brands.

Finally, Peter thinks Dennis went to Spain in 1990/91.

So:
A bit more colour to the picture and Dennis really does exist and is about 60 now and possibly in Spain.

A new name is Avalon Racing in Canterbury who might recall the days I'm interested in.

Many thanks to Clive and Peter.
I think my chances are drying up very very quickly.

[Clive Brown]

This is getting a bit confused.... I'm pretty sure that it was John Sabourin who put the engine in for Brian Davis, but this was after the Humberstones sold it to Brian. It would have already had the KG bodywork on it by then.

Unless, of course, Sabourin also undertook work for the Humberstones either before, or after, or even both, Harman and Schneider fitted the KG bodywork to the car. We still do not know just who swapped all the bits from the wrecked Skoda onto the T492 for Harry; they may have done it themselves of course, but I somehow doubt it. Alan Humberstone would of course know all this! Perhaps you need to contact Alan again, this time with some specific questions.

And where does this talk of a pink Lola come from? Are you sure about this? Did Peter mean a pink Skoda?

[911thillclimber]

I think that is the correct spelling Clive.
John S did only a finishing job of the engine, not the main task.
He spoke to John S only last week about it.

Alan called me, not the other way so I doubt I have his number; will have a look on all the papers I have.
If I can i will call as he was very positive about the whole car and I know a lot more now than then. Back then I thought it was HU6!


The car was without the pink Ghia body when at Brian's place, so where is that body?

[Clive Brown]

Graham

The history of your car is fairly easy to follow up to the point where Alan Humberstone destroyed HU6, by that time carrying pink Skoda bodywork and powered by a Hart 420R, at Lydden.

The Humberstones then bought a T492, we believe from Demolition Den, as a donor car. The first key question is who did Dennis get the car from?

The second key question is who built up the chassis that was delivered to Harmann and Schneider, complete with 420R and the suspension off Tony Dickinson's car, so that they could in turn fit the KG bodywork?

The car was then returned to the Humberstones as a pink KG-Hart. When it reappeared, it had a turdbo Ford, seemingly a YBT from Mountune. Third key question: who fitted this? Was it John Sabourin? It was in that form that it raced at Brands.

Now, once the car had left H&S it always had KG bodywork, up to the point where you bought it from Mike. The white KG bodywork is a red herring; it's a ****-poor pink spray job, faded by UV light.

The car does not now have the same front suspension as it did when TD had the car; I suspect that the Humberstones took the car to Chris Crawford at ADA, who fitted the big Brembo front brakes and F3000 (?) uprights. ADA ran C2 cars, which might explain just why the car has Tiga/Ralt/Spice front uprights.

Fourth key question. The Humberstones sold the car to Brian Davis when they moved to Spain. Brian had it fitted with an RS500 motor. Who did that? Was it John Sabourin? He could not have fitted any turbo pipe to the car before it had KG bodywork, as before the car was fitted with the KG bodywork by messrs. H&S, it always had a normally aspirated 420R when in the Humberstones' ownership ; perhaps he was given the car to work on simply with the body removed.

To take your enquiries further, it seems to me that you need to talk with four people:

Alan Humberstone
Brian Davis
Demolition Dennis Humphries
John Sabourin

Should you succeed in contacting them, at least you now have sufficient information to be able to ask them structured, rather than random, questions. Good luck!

P.S.: I do hope that having confessed to having a car that was once the property of a PRI banger driver, you realise that you will never be allowed to besmirch the hallowed tarmac of the Bugatti Owners' Club at Prescott ever again. As for your application for membership of the BRDC, just save the price of the stamp....

[911thillclimber]

Yes, that is a good summary.

Listening to Peter the other night he said John S did not fit the RS200 engine, but had been to BrianD's place to fit turbo pipes to the car, presumably the car with the RS500 engine fitted.

When i went to see the car just before buying it the RS500 engine was in and on the FT200, but it had no pipes or intercooler etc.
It had no support hardware on the chassis (water header tank, fuel swirl pot etc,) these were all the Hart parts in a big box that came with the car that I still have. Some of those parts are in position in the Tony H pics.

Peter sees John S often and will follow the story up with him.

As you said recently Clive, I need to get back in touch with Alan H and Dennis.

The Banger oval in Essex have nobody who knows Dennis, I've put a question on the Nostalgia section of Oval racers site and emailed Northhampton Oval where Peter thinks Dennis moved to in the late 80's (maybe to run it).

Mike did say it had a crushed Ghia body in white on it and that went to the tip just after he bought it.
Mike also said he fitted the RS500 and he was more than capable of that from the stuff in his extensive garage. I think Mike is in France now, retired.

I will email him and ask some questions, but he knew little about the car's history except the Alan H connection.
When I bought the car I barely knew what a T 492 was let alone the characters of the day, so simply listened to him.

I know Driftwood talked to him shortly after the purchase and had the same impression I think but found out about Tony Dickinson etc.

The front end was done by ADA, Alan said so and it was hard to correct the bump steer and cost a fortune. I think it has a Tilotson rack or at least something non T 492 (which had an Escort LHD rack as standard)

I cannot think how to find Dennis other than what we have tried, and if he is in Spain then that is even more remote a chance of contact.
If I can find Alan's number then that's good, but I'm quite sure he did not/would not give it to me.

One last thing:
I remember my call to John Sch albeit brief as he could not recall much, but I think he said that he had the front roll cage off the car. Some T 490/2 had the chassis number stamped on the front cage, but it was all a bit hazey to John.

Peter: You have an email!