Your Thoughts On A Pension System in NASCAR

[muggle not]

What are your thoughts on a pension system in Nascar. Many of the older drivers did not see the paychecks that today's drivers are getting. Plus some like Nadeau get little help with their expenses. Personally, I think a pension system in Nascar is long overdue.

http://my.earthlink.net/article/top?...02062011249176

[AU N EGL]

Pension?? it is called the Truck series.

[Craig]

Not sure what you mean by a pension scheme? Bit of a random suggestion, surely?

[Slippy Diff]

Originally Posted by muggle not

Many of the older drivers did not see the paychecks that today's drivers are getting. some like Nadeau get little help with their expenses

My heart bleeds. Lets see pics of Nadeau's house, cars, holiday home, motorhome, trophy wife etc before worrying if he's gonna be able to afford the mortgage this week.

[Dudley]

Yes, I feel for those poor drivers who spent 20 years earning more money a year than most of us will make in a lifetime.

[jslone]

Lets see how you handle with their medical bills and other expenses,I like the idea of a pension plan,now the modern era drivers I am unsure of,DIck Trickle comes to mind,does need help if they did all of their work out of their own pocket.

[Slippy Diff]

Originally Posted by jslone

Lets see how you handle with their medical bills and other expenses

And how is that different to me? I work, have medical bills and other expenses and I also contribute to a pension through my own income. I spent a fair few years funding my own racing, do you think I should get a pension because of this?

[jslone]

Yours and mine are different in that regard,its called a retirement fund,I dont think NAscar has that for the older drivers,maybe the newer ones but unsure of the older drivers.

[Slippy Diff]

Originally Posted by jslone

Yours and mine are different in that regard,its called a retirement fund,I dont think NAscar has that for the older drivers,maybe the newer ones but unsure of the older drivers.

Again, why should a retirement fund be provided? Just because the older drivers didn't get paid as much then as drivers now is no reason. Their financial advisors (presuming they had them) should have informed them of the need to provide for their retirement.
Mr Nadeau seems to have the funds to be able to place sponsorship in 2007 so he ain't exactly having to ponder selling the kids into slavery.

[muggle not]

Obviously some have no idea of the roots of Nascar. Most of the old time drivers / teams had not even heard of financial advisors. I do believe that all other major sports in the U.S. have instigated pension systems of some sort to help the oldtimers that helped pave the way for today's group of highly paid athletes.

Perhaps it is a culture thing. Some people regardless of what Country they are from believe in survival of the fittest while others believe in helping the downtrodden.

Maybe this topic should be closed as we are getting away from the discussion of racing. Or perhaps the topic should be moved to Parc Ferme.

[Slippy Diff]

Originally Posted by muggle not

Maybe this topic should be closed as we are getting away from the discussion of racing]

No thank you, your original question had nothing to do with racing

Originally Posted by muggle not

Or perhaps the topic should be moved to Parc Ferme.[/B]

It's fine where it is.


Nadeau is 37, what is 'old timer' about that? As I said in a post above, he has cash to throw around in sponsorship deals, so he can't exactly be short of a bob or two. He's also got some expensive tastes in pastimes.
Stirling Moss had to give up his proffessional racing career in the 50's when drivers were paid a pittance. He's managed to take care of himself financially.

[kingfloopy]

I think drivers can get insurance even with their high risk careers, they just pay more for it. They also can start a 401k plan or stock investments if they really want to save for their retirement or injury. Most drivers today make above average incomes, even those in the truck series, so I can't feel real sorry for them. On top of that they have promotional things, fan clubs, merchandise, etc. to make extra income. Most still give away autographs for free, but that will change and they will take the baseball method of gouging fans eventually. If there driving careers fail, even if they are injured and unable to race there's rarely anything to prevent them from getting a normal job and making a normal income. Bobby Allison who lost his career in a wreck and both his sons and his race team is the one guy I can think of that deserves something, but he still gets by.

J.D.

[davyboy]

Let's get real here for a second. These people are among the highest paid individuals in motor racing worldwide... and have been for some time. They have advisors and managers to inform them about planning for illness, disability, death and retirement... and they have the financial resources to provide for it. They are infinitely more privileged than the vast majority of Americans and do not even register on the scale of charity needs. The idea that they should be provided for by somebody other than themselves is proposterous.

[muggle not]

Yeah, y'all are probably right. Tough chit for some of those drivers that paved the way for today's highly paid drivers. Some of the oldtimers may be struggling financially by why should any of today's high income drivers help them out. The oldtimers should have selected a career that would provide dividends for them in their old age.

[Dudley]

Originally Posted by jslone

Lets see how you handle with their medical bills and other expenses,

Yes I'm sure letting the team pay for those must also be a drag.

Yeah, y'all are probably right. Tough chit for some of those drivers that paved the way for today's highly paid drivers. Some of the oldtimers may be struggling financially by why should any of today's high income drivers help them out. The oldtimers should have selected a career that would provide dividends for them in their old age.

I'd rather help the struggling old timers that spent 50 years working in a factory or fighting for their country than oldtimers who did a dream job.

[muggle not]

Originally Posted by Dudley

I'd rather help the struggling old timers that spent 50 years working in a factory or fighting for their country than oldtimers who did a dream job.

Why should you help either. Do you have a pension system where you work.

[StuiE]

Can someone explain how pensions work in the US? In aus your employer pays x% (7% I think) of your earnings into superannuation, which you get as a pension when you retire. Does the employer pay directly to the employee when he/she retires? I think the big US auto companies are having to pay out workers pensions and it's killing them right now

am I slightly on track?

If that's the case, then I would agree on a pension system, but only for the old timers, not the kinda guys that get $200,000 to finish 43rd at chicagoland etc.

[muggle not]

Originally Posted by StuiE

Can someone explain how pensions work in the US? In aus your employer pays x% (7% I think) of your earnings into superannuation, which you get as a pension when you retire. Does the employer pay directly to the employee when he/she retires? I think the big US auto companies are having to pay out workers pensions and it's killing them right now

am I slightly on track?

If that's the case, then I would agree on a pension system, but only for the old timers, not the kinda guys that get $200,000 to finish 43rd at chicagoland etc.

Pension systems in the U.S. vary greatly. Usually the employer pays a portion and the employee pays a portion toward it. Many years ago the employer would pay directly to the employee in retirement. However, that changed and nowadays "most" pension systems are paid into what is called a 401K plan. Employee pays into it and employer also pays a percentage into the plan. Upon retirement the employee can take all the money and put it into what is called an IRA (Individual Retirement Account) which is usually invested. The employee can then take payments from the IRA.

Most, if not all, major Sports in the U.S. have a pension plan paid by the employees (players) and/or the employers (teams) and the pension plans do help the oldtimers. My point is, why shouldn't Nascar have a plan similar to the other Sports in the U.S. that would help the oldtimers.

[Craig]

Originally Posted by muggle not

Why should you help either. Do you have a pension system where you work.

Nope. It's up to the individual to take care of themself.

[fazzaz]

Muggle,

Avoiding the issue of whether or not the old drivers should be taken care of in some way, the major difference between NASCAR and the sports you cite is the legal relationships. In professional baseball, football, basketball, etc. the players are employees of the teams. That legal (employer/employee) relationship has significant implications.

In NASCAR, there is no such relationship with the drivers (or the teams). No active driver is employed by NASCAR in any legal sense. In addition, drivers in almost every case have a contractual -- rather than an employee -- relationship with their teams, usually on some sort of year-to-year basis. I don't know these contracts well enough, but there seem to be differences between NASCAR and the other sports you mentioned in this regard.

The most realistic solution is for an insurance company to offer some sort of group plan or plans. NASCAR could encourage this offering, but for legal reasons probably would not want to sponsor it.

The best analogy is probably movie stars. There is a retirement home for those who worked in the industry in the early days. It's not necessarily glamourous, but is an example of an industry trying to take care of its own.

I think we can agree that it would be great if there were something for those who helped make the sport what it is today. It's just not as easy as we might like.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by StuiE

Can someone explain how pensions work in the US? In aus your employer pays x% (7% I think) of your earnings into superannuation, which you get as a pension when you retire. Does the employer pay directly to the employee when he/she retires? I think the big US auto companies are having to pay out workers pensions and it's killing them right now

Slight aside here, but just to explain. In the US and UK [and some other countries], its up to the individual to take care of themselves in preparation for retirement. The governments in those countries provide a minimal safety net [circa $100/week] if you have no pension, but you would be beneath the poverty line on that. I realize countries like France, Germany, Italy etc... [and it looks like Oz too] put a burden on the employer to contribute to a reasonable pension. Its better for the man in the street, but very tough on corporations - I know as I used to be the CEO of a multinational organization and we struggled to make money in the countries where such legislation was in place.

[muggle not]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Slight aside here, but just to explain. In the US and UK [and some other countries], its up to the individual to take care of themselves in preparation for retirement. The governments in those countries provide a minimal safety net [circa $100/week] if you have no pension, but you would be beneath the poverty line on that. I realize countries like France, Germany, Italy etc... [and it looks like Oz too] put a burden on the employer to contribute to a reasonable pension. Its better for the man in the street, but very tough on corporations - I know as I used to be the CEO of a multinational organization and we struggled to make money in the countries where such legislation was in place.

Davyboy, yes and no. There is no legislation in the U.S. requiring Corporations to provide a means of retirement for the employees, however, most American Corporations in fact do provide an opportunity for employees to save for retirement......via the 401K method that I explained in a previous post. Also, people working for the Government, which are many, have a Government sponsored retirement system. The 401K system works well in the U.S. if administered properly and if the employees participate.

[Craig]

What is the deal for those already retired who didnt pay into a scheme? Are their old bosses expected to bail them out? Or how does it work?

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by muggle not

Davyboy, yes and no. There is no legislation in the U.S. requiring Corporations to provide a means of retirement for the employees, however, most American Corporations in fact do provide an opportunity for employees to save for retirement......via the 401K method that I explained in a previous post. Also, people working for the Government, which are many, have a Government sponsored retirement system. The 401K system works well in the U.S. if administered properly and if the employees participate.

That's right, but my point is that US companies are not legally compelled to contibute to a state pension scheme for each employee. They are in France, Germany and Italy. The 401K system is optional, for example the company I work for in the US does not have it.
-- sorry a slight digression from the theme of the thread --

[fazzaz]

There certainly is! Every employer over a certain size (I think five employees) is required to pay into the Social Security system for each employee, matching the employee's contribution.

Those benefits are payable to the employee upon retirement (as early as 62), or in the event of disability. Trust me, as a former business owner (and now retiree) this is NOT an optional system.

Private pensions, 401Ks, and similar are in addition to Social Security benefits, which are not enought to provide a high-end standard of living.

Back to the original point of the thread: NASCAR drivers are not employees of NASCAR, thus not part of the Social Security system from that relationship.