[Rules] The FIA - what's occurring there?

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by E.B

On paper it sounds like MBS wants to be Judge, jury and governor of his own questionable behaviour.... in effect putting himself in a dictatorial position.

Do as I say not as I do springs to mind.

Maybe my suspicious mind is reading more into what is being suggested than I fear.

We can only hope it never gets beyond the proposal stage.

I think there is no other way to read it. And it is blatant. I think there is no way to disassemble your own in-house governance organization and paint a pretty face on it. Especially given a history of reports of ethical and financial impropriety. A Motorsports.com article says that he is currently unopposed in the upcoming election. So this is to solidify power and grant himself the ability to do specific things without oversight.

It seems he is clearly on the path to be the next Sepp Blatter.

Here is a cynical view... FOM allows FIA to become a cesspool of corruption so that when they break away from the FIA, they can say "It's not about money or self control, we just don't want to be associated with the mess that is the FIA. The FIA is dragging us down into the mud. We have to protect our own ethics and investments."

Richard

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by E.B

On paper it sounds like MBS wants to be Judge, jury and governor of his own questionable behaviour.... in effect putting himself in a dictatorial position.

Do as I say not as I do springs to mind.

Maybe my suspicious mind is reading more into what is being suggested than I fear.

We can only hope it never gets beyond the proposal stage.

That's exactly what it sounds like. These rule changes would effectively prevent anyone within the FIA, from questioning or challenging the conduct or decisions made by MBS.

As the BBC article says: ''In essence, critics say the changes would neutralise the ability of whistleblowers to expose questionable behaviour to the ethics and audit committees, and the ability of those committees to pursue actions against any wrongdoing.''

Originally Posted by Richard C

Here is a cynical view... FOM allows FIA to become a cesspool of corruption so that when they break away from the FIA, they can say "It's not about money or self control, we just don't want to be associated with the mess that is the FIA. The FIA is dragging us down into the mud. We have to protect our own ethics and investments."

Richard

I quite like the cynical view.

[Mike Harte]

Not wishing to bring politics in to this matter, but there is symmetry to it, but this is very similar to what happened in the UK in the last few years. This was when the then Prime Minister who, along with friends in his parliamentary party, were being investigated by the person responsible for ensuring standards were maintained, decided unilaterally to abolish the post.

This was such a blatant attempt to subvert natural justice that all the media, even those that supported his party, poured deep scorn on the move, and it had to be dropped, thankfully. The system is still not perfect, but at least a prime minister is not able to be judge, jury and executioner on not only his own behaviour and actions, but also those of other members of parliament. It does leaver one major problem in that the person chosen for the post is in the gift of the PM of the time.

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by Richard C

.



Here is a cynical view... FOM allows FIA to become a cesspool of corruption so that when they break away from the FIA, they can say "It's not about money or self control, we just don't want to be associated with the mess that is the FIA. The FIA is dragging us down into the mud. We have to protect our own ethics and investments."



Richard

Yes I totally agree. I've said (maybe here or elsewhere in the forum) that I can see F1 breaking away from the FIA and sooner r rather than later.



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[chernaudi]

I'm in favor of the FIA as a sanctioning body having more say over the sport--the FIA should focus on sporting matters (technical regs, sporting regs, logistics, etc) and FOM should focus on the commercial side of the business.


However, the FIA is set up to function almost as a democratic republic form of government as a body. One man--in this case MBS--having almost unchallenged power does cross the line of what makes sense as far as how the FIA is structured. And yes, Mosley and more so Balestre did push the boundaries of what the FIA Senate, GA and WMSC allowed them, and those bodies pushed back and Max and J-M paid for it in the end.


I do wonder if MBS can actually get into legal trouble with a or multiple governments or government bodies in Europe or elsewhere if he goes too far?

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

I do wonder if MBS can actually get into legal trouble with a or multiple governments or government bodies in Europe or elsewhere if he goes too far?

He might dismantle the checks and balances inside the FIA, but if his actions delve into criminal behavior then yes. FIFA has shown how it can go in that direction.

Richard

[Skam85]

Like I said, he's Temu Balestre

[Tourer]

Wasn't sure if this fitted the "FIA" thread or the "Andretti" thread, but Joe Saward's latest blog raises some potentially serious questions about FIA integrity, this time specifically around the process of approving new team entries.

In particular, this section might all be a furphy but does raise some key questions:

Ben Sulayem parlayed his success in desert rallies into becoming a big blazer in the local automobile club and subsequently to being elected president of the FIA. His family connections with GM are not inherently a problem. His brother does his thing and Mohammed runs the FIA in his own inimitable style.

It would only ever be a problem if there was some indication that the selection process for a new F1 team linked with GM was in some way unfair.

“We never favoured anyone, and it is only because this application ticked all the boxes that the FIA approved it,” Ben Sulayem said recently. “It was only a matter of time before General Motors was going to be approved. I wanted GM in F1 because it is good for business.”

We will see if this turns out to be the case, because on paper the new team is definitely more sports investor Mark Walter than it is GM. One presumes that if things one day go well, GM might make it a proper factory team, even if it might still be structured like Mercedes, with the car company owning 33 percent and two other partners each having equal shares. This was Mercedes gets an F1 programme at no real cost. Audi, as mentioned in the last green notebook, is trying to fashion its team in the same way – because it makes sense.

Anyway, the only real question about the selection process that took place is what the confidential arbitration case with Hitech Grand Prix is all about. When its bid was rejected, Hitech challenged the FIA and it was agreed to go to arbitration. It is now clear that the FIA has not fared well in this process. I did have the totally bizarre experience not long ago when an FIA man, who best remain nameless, came up and said: ‘Your story is wrong!’. As always if someone says such a thing, I reply: ‘What’s wrong with it?’. In this case, I got the reply: ‘I cannot say.’

So what was the point of complaining if I cannot be told what to fix?

Ah, the joys of that famous election promise transparency…

Anyway, the word in F1 circles is that the FIA is going to pay out $3 million in legal fees to Hitech and there is a discussion still to be had over damages?

I would love to see what the arbitration judgement says (that’s a hint, by the way) because obviously the judge involved cannot have been entirely happy to have reached this situation. Still, it would be good to know why Andretti/Cadillac/GM/Walter (choose whichever name best suits) bid was accepted and why Hitech was rejected. I have tried all manner of means (bribery, blackmail etc) to get someone to slip me the judgement so I can fully understand.

Have to say that 6 months ago I would have doubted that there's truth in any of the suggestions (other than the Hitech arbitration) but given recent carry-on at the FIA, with integrity people removed and the Pres overseeing that himself, accusations that the Pres interfered in due process, firing of good people, who were definitely not "yes" men, then what Joe is suggesting feels possible.

Even though the team entry has now been accepted, it does raise the question of how future team applications might get handled, in fact how any future business / administration / oversight / integrity issues might get handled.

[Richard C]

At least for me... there is an obvious reason why FIA picked GM over Hitech. Take a poll of average 1st world people and see who gets the bigger name recognition. I would hazard a guess that General Motors would smash Hitech by a factor of 10 ("Who is Hitech?" would be the predominate response). MBS didn't want another "team", he wanted another "manufacture". Frankly I think the majority of other teams want the same. Especially if they think they can (and likely will in the immediate future) beat up on a big name player AND get an extra payout above what the new entry rules specified.

Even in the initial response from FOM, it's clear they wanted GM and said "Andretti who?". If Andretti had not brought GM with them, I doubt initial Andretti+GM proposal would have been approved by FIA.

Now, as to how MBS may have manipulated things to get his way. We all see he will stop at nothing to do that. Including not playing even by his (FIA's) established rules.

Richard

[Richard C]

As expected the effort to strip away the internal FIA governance and oversight has been successful.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f...ight/10682208/

Richard

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Richard C

As expected the effort to strip away the internal FIA governance and oversight has been successful.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f...ight/10682208/

Richard

So now the lunatic is wholly and solely in charge of the asylum.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Richard C

As expected the effort to strip away the internal FIA governance and oversight has been successful.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f...ight/10682208/

Richard

It's almost like he's completely corrupt and more concerned about being caught than running the organization.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

It's almost like he's completely corrupt and more concerned about being caught than running the organization.

So it would seem.

'' Under new plans, the responsibilities of the compliance officer would mean that power would be handed over to the FIA president and the president of its senate.

It would also remove the power of the audit committee to investigate financial issues independently and is now only required “if asked to do so by the president of the Senate”. ''

[chernaudi]

So now it seems that MBS would have to run afoul of the EU or US Government (or a similar entity) to get into serious trouble, let alone being forced to step down. Not even Mosley or Balestre pulled this crap (though I have no doubt that they wanted to).


On top of that MBS wants permanent officials on the stewarding panel (IMO, actually a good idea for once from him), but he and the FIA are unwilling to pay them...

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

So now it seems that MBS would have to run afoul of the EU or US Government (or a similar entity) to get into serious trouble, let alone being forced to step down. Not even Mosley or Balestre pulled this crap (though I have no doubt that they wanted to).


On top of that MBS wants permanent officials on the stewarding panel (IMO, actually a good idea for once from him), but he and the FIA are unwilling to pay them...

Actually it was the drivers who requested that permanent Stewards were appointed, but MBS said that the drivers refused to pay for them, so the FIA is not going to pay for them either.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Actually it was the drivers who requested that permanent Stewards were appointed, but MBS said that the drivers refused to pay for them, so the FIA is not going to pay for them either.

Made 2.2m Euros profit (but can't use the word profit, because it's a non-profit). Says it won't pay for stewards.

Presumably he needs that cash for bribes.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Made 2.2m Euros profit (but can't use the word profit, because it's a non-profit). Says it won't pay for stewards.

What I find interesting is that F1 (between FIA/FOM) are relying upon volunteer stewards! I assume they are compensated somehow such as travel and lodging? But still... volunteer and unpaid positions for such a critical part of the overall solution. Maybe what they can do is replace them with some unpaid interns!

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Presumably he needs that cash for bribes.

You joke (or not), but I think that is 100% accurate. The "bribes" is money that is to be distributed to "grassroots" motorsports. I wonder what type of accountability will exist for those funding efforts. Money sent to some remote club for them to spend as they see fit. Then have a small karting event for local kids and the rest of the money goes into various pockets for "administrative fees". Those same pockets continue to vote to keep him in power.

Richard

[Derwent]

As a grass roots administrator in the UK, I am not aware of any FIA/F1 money coming our way.

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by Derwent

As a grass roots administrator in the UK, I am not aware of any FIA/F1 money coming our way.

Yes, but we are a (relatively) wealthy country and not bribable .... much.

[porsche962fan]

could MBS be removed from office ?

[chernaudi]

In theory, yes. But it seems that he's trying to use his position to minimize the chances of that happening anytime soon.

[S griffin]

All he's done is made enemies so far. It seems ego has outweighed judgement on a few occasions. He needs to take a step back

[flatlandsman]

I keep re-iterating this. But this man has grown up privileged in an environment where he has people at his beck and call, surely that is bound to impact your views on life and how you treat others, I liken him a bit living in a bubble like Micheal Jackson!!

[S griffin]

To be fair he is a multiple rally champion, although only at Middle East level. So he has competed in the sport. But that doesn’t mean he’s the right man for the job

[flatlandsman]

Competing means nothing in terms of what kind of person you are, I think personally he comes from about an entitles upbringing as it is possible to come from in an area unaware of the ways perhaps some other countries work and what is expected, respected etc. This is no excuse for what is going on, but for me perhaps explains it.