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Old 14 Feb 2020, 09:14 (Ref:3957575)   #46
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Yes although it seems there was no real rush so a relaxed trip. I know someone with a Tesla 3 or whatever it is, who regularly goes to the West country. Also because there's no real rush he and his wife arrive relaxed.

Interestingly the Author has similar alternatives to us, we have a Fiesta ST and a V6 3l Grand Cherokee.

I do agree with the comments.concerning battery life and indeed manufacture but ultimately there will be little choice in the next few years.
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Old 14 Feb 2020, 13:59 (Ref:3957610)   #47
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Certainly a battery power car can be used quite economically. I admire those who have given these cars a go, I'm sure once you've driven them a few times, you know how best to use them. I think these types of cars will be worth considering

Of course we still need conventional cars just in case things go wrong. The electric cars still have quite a way to go before they a fully developed. There's no real hurry at the moment, we have plenty of other greener technology that's proved to work
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Old 15 Feb 2020, 16:36 (Ref:3957737)   #48
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With respect to the EV debate, I note from the Times today that there are concerns that some suppliers of charging points have fee structures that make a mockery of the economy claims:


"An investigation into public charging networks across the UK shows that motorists are required to pay an average of almost £10 for 100 miles worth of “fuel”. The study found that one operator, Ionity, charged as much as £23 for the power needed to travel 100 miles.


This was nine times the comparable cost of charging a vehicle at home overnight — £2.67 — when the price of electricity is lowest. It was about double the cost of fuel for a similar-sized petrol or diesel car going the same distance."

There is an interesting clip on youtube of Yamaha testing an electric powerpack in an Alfa 4C, though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfehJ2rkYKI


These calculations were based on a 40Kw Nissan Leaf. It does show how important being able to charge at home is, which of course isn't an option if you are going more than say 80-90 miles one-way (even with the more frugal electric cars). Even on the £10 for 100 miles cost, my 10 year old Alfa diesel can nearly match that, driven gently - admittedly driven in my normal fashion it probably costs about £15 per 100 miles. It would need a lot to persuade me to lash out the inflated price for an EV just now.

Last edited by Lancsbreaker; 15 Feb 2020 at 16:39. Reason: Additional comment
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Old 15 Feb 2020, 17:17 (Ref:3957739)   #49
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Speaking of which, I realised the other day we don’t seem to hear much about biofuels anymore. I was expecting not long after they first became a thing, that by now they would have taken over, but it doesn’t seem to be so. Then again I didn’t expect Electric power to take over so quickly. Have they just simply gone out of fashion or is their not a need for them so much now?
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Old 15 Feb 2020, 17:37 (Ref:3957743)   #50
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We have biofuels. The latest fuels you buy at the pumps includes methanol which is a biofuel. Hence it goes stale very quickly.
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Old 15 Feb 2020, 17:57 (Ref:3957745)   #51
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Re EV car charging costs, there is one new company (Ionity, backed by a few Euro manus) that has announced a charge per Kw around 3 times that of competitors. Luckily they only have 3 charge stations in the UK, so hardly likely to worry the likes of me!

If you’re interested enough to run an EV, and take the charging aspect seriously, you’ll soon work out which are the cheap / expensive / daft options.....
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Old 15 Feb 2020, 18:10 (Ref:3957747)   #52
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I've been using the Bolloré electric cars in Paris area and they were fine, at least during the two first years. Very convenient system and great software. Unfortunately, politics…
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Old 15 Feb 2020, 18:51 (Ref:3957754)   #53
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Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker View Post
With respect to the EV debate, I note from the Times today that there are concerns that some suppliers of charging points have fee structures that make a mockery of the economy claims:


"An investigation into public charging networks across the UK shows that motorists are required to pay an average of almost £10 for 100 miles worth of “fuel”. The study found that one operator, Ionity, charged as much as £23 for the power needed to travel 100 miles.


This was nine times the comparable cost of charging a vehicle at home overnight — £2.67 — when the price of electricity is lowest. It was about double the cost of fuel for a similar-sized petrol or diesel car going the same distance."

There is an interesting clip on youtube of Yamaha testing an electric powerpack in an Alfa 4C, though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfehJ2rkYKI


These calculations were based on a 40Kw Nissan Leaf. It does show how important being able to charge at home is, which of course isn't an option if you are going more than say 80-90 miles one-way (even with the more frugal electric cars). Even on the £10 for 100 miles cost, my 10 year old Alfa diesel can nearly match that, driven gently - admittedly driven in my normal fashion it probably costs about £15 per 100 miles. It would need a lot to persuade me to lash out the inflated price for an EV just now.
Link to new Ionity charging rates https://www.carsuk.net/ionity-increa...0-69p-per-kwh/
That does work out to £23 per 100 miles in a small EV .
But no doubt the others will have to follow because of the cost of the infrastructure of putting up charging points .
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Old 15 Feb 2020, 19:23 (Ref:3957755)   #54
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Link to new Ionity charging rates https://www.carsuk.net/ionity-increa...0-69p-per-kwh/
That does work out to £23 per 100 miles in a small EV .
But no doubt the others will have to follow because of the cost of the infrastructure of putting up charging points .

And at some point they will have to create a tax of some sort to replace the revenue lost due to falling traditional fuel sales.
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Old 15 Feb 2020, 21:48 (Ref:3957761)   #55
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We have biofuels. The latest fuels you buy at the pumps includes methanol which is a biofuel. Hence it goes stale very quickly.
I did ask on post 521 regarding biofuel so what else is it not good for ?
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Old 16 Feb 2020, 07:12 (Ref:3957784)   #56
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I have launched 'Bauble's Electric Car Charging Point' here in Luton, so if you need a re-charge in Bedfordshire just pop round to my house and I will plug you into the mains for a very reasonable sum.

Seriously there does seem room for some enterprise here. One house per street offering the service would provide plenty of available re-charge points across the whole country (apart from Yorkshire of course) to meet the need.
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Old 16 Feb 2020, 09:38 (Ref:3957794)   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tel 911S View Post
Link to new Ionity charging rates https://www.carsuk.net/ionity-increa...0-69p-per-kwh/
But no doubt the others will have to follow because of the cost of the infrastructure of putting up charging points .
I don’t think they will go to those prices. Trouble is Ionity have had to invest in very expensive charger tech to be able to offer the rate of charge some high end cars will be able to take.

One bonus of those very high rates per Kw are that it will hopefully deter drivers stopping any longer than needed, and doing main charge at home...

Baub, your ‘serious’ post has a point. Now new home charge meters are ‘smart’, there should be an easy way of calculating the cost per use... Prob something n the small print about not for resale, though!
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Old 16 Feb 2020, 10:32 (Ref:3957796)   #58
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I don’t think they will go to those prices. Trouble is Ionity have had to invest in very expensive charger tech to be able to offer the rate of charge some high end cars will be able to take.

One bonus of those very high rates per Kw are that it will hopefully deter drivers stopping any longer than needed, and doing main charge at home...

Baub, your ‘serious’ post has a point. Now new home charge meters are ‘smart’, there should be an easy way of calculating the cost per use... Prob something n the small print about not for resale, though!
No commercial company is going to throw money away , so will expect some return on their investment .
Oxford City Council has installed 30 street chargers , [ & hoping to do another 70 ] , all paid for by taxpayers money , approx £25000 per unit .
[Back of an envelope calc here ]. But even if they charged Ionity,s 69 pence per KWh & were in use 24 hours a day , even without maintenance costs they would still be losing taxpayers money after a years use .
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Old 16 Feb 2020, 11:19 (Ref:3957800)   #59
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No commercial company is going to throw money away , so will expect some return on their investment .
Oxford City Council has installed 30 street chargers , [ & hoping to do another 70 ] , all paid for by taxpayers money , approx £25000 per unit .
[Back of an envelope calc here ]. But even if they charged Ionity,s 69 pence per KWh & were in use 24 hours a day , even without maintenance costs they would still be losing taxpayers money after a years use .
Where does the figure of £25k per unit come from?

Typical cost is £1k to £1.5k per unit.

https://www.spiritenergy.co.uk/kb-ev-charging-point-business-case
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Old 16 Feb 2020, 11:37 (Ref:3957803)   #60
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It's possible that the additional cabling required would.have a significant impact on out turn cost but £25k per unit does.appear excessive.
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