Alan Henry's Top 100 Formula One Drivers (Possible Spoilers)

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by Ralf's Girl

Fascinating list - I'm going to have to buy the book to read the explanations!

Originally Posted by Mr Pink

The book will have motivation for every drivers spot on the list right? In that case I will probably buy it.

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

I think Alesi is way too high, but I'll still get it.

Originally Posted by Bononi

Yeah, that will be very interesting to read why he rates some drivers like that...

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Damon ahead of his dad? I'm going to read this one.

Originally Posted by Osella

Can't wait to read it.

Alan Henry owes me a pint.

[Knowlesy]

It is about F1 purely paddy. Indycar title's don't come into it. Moss also won many things outside F1 in any case.

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

Alan Henry owes me a pint.

In fairness, I had this on pre-order until I ran out of cash.

[Peter Mallett]

SH. He posts on here so maybe he'll look you up.

Knowlesy. I know the feeling. Just be comforted, it doesn't last.

[Leighton Irwin]

Interesting list. We will never all agree.
One criteria usually used is (was) the ability to take an inferior car by the scruff of the neck and make it a winner. Moss sure could. By the same criteria I would rate Nuvolari, G. Villeneuve and Fangio higher. Saw Moss several times but never one of his super drives. Saw Fangio once and never saw Nuvolari. Gilles many times.

[Burnsie]

Lewis Hamilton was pipped at the post to the title in his debut season, and he's 30th on the list.
Jacques Villeneuve was pipped at the post to the title in his debut season and he's 49th on the list.

And surely Schumacher deserves to be higher - at least in the top five!!
But it's a fascinating list, and I'll definitely be buying the book.

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by burnsie

Jacques Villeneuve was pipped at the post to the title in his debut season and he's 49th on the list.

Had JV retired at the end of 1997 he would have been higher on the list.

However, he did not and destroyed what reputation he had and more.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Leighton Irwin

One criteria usually used is (was) the ability to take an inferior car by the scruff of the neck and make it a winner.

Ah yes, the Webber theory.

Originally Posted by Leighton Irwin

Moss sure could.

Not sure that is true, (apart from Monaco '61). He certainly could use the equipment given to him and indeed made it work. But, I'd suggest the '55 Mercedes was a front running car,

Originally Posted by Leighton Irwin

By the same criteria I would rate Nuvolari, G.Villeneuve and Fangio higher. Saw Moss several times but never one of his super drives. Saw Fangio once and never saw Nuvolari. Gilles many times.

All of which makes the list even more intriguing.

[EERO]

Due respect to Mr Henry, but there are a few items I might question.

Moss #1? He may have been brilliant, but even ahead of Fangio on the basis of race wins and WDC's an odd choice.

I adore(d) Hakkinen, and never was a fan of TGF, bit I really don't see how Mika is ahead of Michael on the list.

Chris Amon, a great driver with atrocious luck, but #11??? Ahead of Fittipaldi, Lauda and Piquet? two three time WDC's and two-time winner?????

As contemporaries, Reutemann, (a fave) ahead of Peterson (another fave)? Odd comparing the ability to Ronnie to dominate and Lole's erratic temperment.

All kudos to Brian Redman, a great driver but without much to show in F1, and yet Jarier and Jabouille are off the list?

Lafite, Arnoux and Depailler seem too low and Warwick and Bandini too high.

It's a provocative list and it will generate many conversations, but boy is there anyone who'd agree with the list as presented?

[Burnsie]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Had JV retired at the end of 1997 he would have been higher on the list.

However, he did not and destroyed what reputation he had and more.

That's true Knowlesy, although I hold Craig Pollock partly responsible for that! His empty promises about B.A.R. winning races in their debut season was part of the reason for the downhill-spiral of JV's F1 career.

But to keep my post on the topic in hand before a mod slaps my wrist, I'm glad to see Sir Jackie Stewart so high up in the list. Many people (myself included) believe that he's the greatest driver never to have won the world championship, and his 8th position on the list is testament to this.

[Knowlesy]

Stewart is a triple world champ.

[mjstallard]

It's an odd list - I wouldn't place Moss ahead of so many of those drivers although this is partly to do with my Dad being a die-hard Mike Hawthorn fan and the slight bias this has had on my (minimal) knowledge of that era

But Hill Jr. above Hill Sr.? Coulthard above Collins? In my opinion he could just be trying to stir up controversy and get his book talked about...if he had planned that, it's certainly working!

[Burnsie]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Stewart is a triple world champ.

Of course he has - that was a combination of writing two things at once, then deleting one; and a bit of brain fade on my part No prizes for guessing that I meant Stirling Moss... hopefully I haven't lost all credibility as a petrolhead!!

[davyboy]

"The Top 100 F1 Drivers of all Time" - What an absolute load of rubbish this list is. Maybe its Alan Henry's favourite drivers of all time but nothing more. Some initial reaction here.

o Stirling Moss shouldn't even be in the top 20... his achievements are just not enough to warrant more. Time and again you see his name up there and I can only put it down to misty-eyed patriotism.

o Might Michael Schumacher as number 11 be the reverse of the above ? Without question the greatest driver of all time by any measure and he doesn't make Alan Henry's top 10.

o Chris Amon has me scratching my head... an 'also ran' who had 13 years to make something of F1 and yet never won a race. How could he even make the list, yet he's 13th ?

o Gilles Villeneuve appears top 20 on one of these things again. Probably the most over-rated driver of all time... I'll now get a cacophony of abuse for saying that... but he made bad career decisions and was wreckless behind the wheel. Definitely not the way to succeed in F1, particularly in his generation.

o I would have thought John Surtees deserved better than 24th. A great driver and rider and to date the only one to have won the world title in cars and on bikes. He was an outstanding racing driver who finished 2nd in his second ever GP.

o Emerson Fittipaldi made some career faux pas but he still collected 2 WDCs and was one of the most gifted drivers ever... he deserves better than 17th surely ?

o Speaking of double world champions... Fernando Alonso in 32nd position ? You may not like him but you cannot argue that he's an amazingly talented driver. His manouvre on Michael Schumacher at Imola a few years ago was stunning. He should be way higher. In fact come to think of it 29th through 32nd defy explanation !

As Alan Henry's 100 favourite F1 drivers, I can accept... the top 100 of all time... no way !

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by burnsie

Of course he has - that was a combination of writing two things at once, then deleting one; and a bit of brain fade on my part No prizes for guessing that I meant Stirling Moss... hopefully I haven't lost all credibility as a petrolhead!!

I thought you meant Moss TBH.

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Without question the greatest driver of all time by any measure and he doesn't make Alan Henry's top 10.
!

There is question.

One of the best. The best of his era. Not the best of all.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

There is question.

One of the best. The best of his era. Not the best of all.

The only barometer of driver success in F1 that cannot be argued over is the WDC. Michael Schumacher is currently without peer there and is likely to remain so for some time. If there is question over anything, its about one's opinion which has an infinite number of possibilities.

[Marbot]

Had Alan Henry not put his name to it,you would have thought that it was a list that actually hadn't had much thought put into it.Still,it will sell the book I suppose.

[Knowlesy]

Lest we forget this is the same Alan Henry that handed out a record number of number one spots to Michael in his Autocourse annuals... was he playing favourites then?

The book is not "Alan Henry's Statistics Compendium". It is "Alan Henry's Top 100", and therefore every position in his list (just like a list made by you or I) is up for question, up for debate.

A top 100 based on who is statistically the best would be quite exceptionally dull because you would not have to justify your choices. It would also be horribly misleading.

I wouldn't put Michael at number one, nor would many I suspect for various reasons. On the other hand, some would put him number one. Either way is fine, but don't expect to avoid disagreement with either choice!

[Gt_R]

It's Alan's personal opinion and i guess its not too bad to air an opinion and make money out of it

I don't get paid for posting my thoughts on this forum!

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Lest we forget this is the same Alan Henry that handed out a record number of number one spots to Michael in his Autocourse annuals... was he playing favourites then?

The book is not "Alan Henry's Statistics Compendium". It is "Alan Henry's Top 100", and therefore every position in his list (just like a list made by you or I) is up for question, up for debate.

A top 100 based on who is statistically the best would be quite exceptionally dull because you would not have to justify your choices. It would also be horribly misleading.

I wouldn't put Michael at number one, nor would many I suspect for various reasons. On the other hand, some would put him number one. Either way is fine, but don't expect to avoid disagreement with either choice!

Knowsley, I think you may have slightly misconstrued what I said... have a read of it again

Originally Posted by davyboy

Without question the greatest driver of all time by any measure and he doesn't make Alan Henry's top 10.

Measurement in this sport is calibrated by statistics, not opinion. Schumacher is statistically the greatest. He did not make Alan Henry's top 10. To omit somebody who has achieved more than anyone else in F1 from the top 10 just doesn't make sense. That was my point. I wasn't trying to claim that he should be number one nor was I suggesting that Alan Henry's top 100 should be statistical chart.

[6stringhero]

what a crazy list??!

m. schumacher, carracciola, nuvolari, g.villeneuve, surtees and peterson so low down...?

and why oh why are ralf schumacher, martin brundle, jenson button, and the best of all felipe mass actually in the top 100?

perhaps to add some spice we should voice our own top 5's or 10's?

[Knowlesy]

Again, omitting him from the top ten does not strike me as overly wild given some of the names in his top ten.

The only thing that causes conflict in my mind is the fact that I don't mind that Hakkinen was rated ahead of him (as I say, I think he was slightly quicker than Michael outright), but I do mind that he is in the top ten! That is giving me a headache, so I won't think about that bit much more!

[Gt_R]

i find it extremely difficult to rank drivers in specific positions like Alan. More often than not, it'd be controversial and debatable. Rather, i find it easier if we simply rate drivers into groups (e.g 5 star drivers, 4 star, etc etc.)

If the rating is based on pure driver ability, be it driving/racing, then i frankly think this list has gone a bit wide. MS as a driver in quality is certainly way up with the best, among the top 5. And quality/talent is that, regardless of teammate, or what not. And Hamilton ahead of Alonso? I'm no fan of Alonso, but at this point in time, i really see no concrete evidence of that.

But, i guess Alan can get away with it because he has been around long enough, and he didn't say top 100 based on what factors. If we're talking about best looking drivers, the table will be completely different.

But if its quality as drivers, this list is as accurate as asking Spanish fan who is the best.

[davyboy]

I think I'll ask the lady next door to me to produce a list of her top 100, I think it'll make better reading than this.