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Old 1 Jul 2007, 18:43 (Ref:1951647)   #1
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Albers' pit-stop

Oh,When! When! When! Will fuel stops finally get the push.Once again the potential for disaster was enormous.

The only competetive element to a pit-stop used to be how fast you were able to change all four wheels (teams used to pride themselves on how quickly it could be done).The FIA then took that element away by reintroducing refuelling and made the whole thing far less interesting and far more dangerous.Thoughts please (again).
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Old 1 Jul 2007, 18:56 (Ref:1951662)   #2
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Err,yes,t'was Albers' pit-stop,ahem.
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Old 1 Jul 2007, 18:57 (Ref:1951663)   #3
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Fuel stops can be dangerous, but if everyone is fuelled to last the whole race the cars will all weigh the same and just follow each other!!
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Old 1 Jul 2007, 19:00 (Ref:1951669)   #4
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Originally Posted by McKendrick
Fuel stops can be dangerous, but if everyone is fuelled to last the whole race the cars will all weigh the same and just follow each other!!
With a full fuel load many would find it difficult just to keep their car on the track.
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Old 1 Jul 2007, 19:14 (Ref:1951682)   #5
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I think that this shows an issue with the current rules - no, not the legality of refuelling.

Maybe F1 should have a NASCAR style wall? Even if you don't force them to not be over the wall when the car stops, mandate that all mechanics must be back on the other side before the car drives off?

Fuel stops are normally safe, it's just when cockups like this are allowed to happen that they are dangerous.
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Old 1 Jul 2007, 19:33 (Ref:1951698)   #6
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Refuelling should be banned, that's for sure. It makes the sport unnecessarily dangerous and takes away much of the action on the track.
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Old 1 Jul 2007, 20:06 (Ref:1951737)   #7
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Refueling is'nt dangerous, drivers who try to drive away from the pits to early are.
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Old 1 Jul 2007, 20:08 (Ref:1951740)   #8
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Robin_D should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridRobin_D should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridRobin_D should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Yep that is very true. Albers seemed to have jumped the gun a bit as the lollipop was not lifted.
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Old 1 Jul 2007, 20:25 (Ref:1951763)   #9
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Originally Posted by duke_toaster
Maybe F1 should have a NASCAR style wall? Even if you don't force them to not be over the wall when the car stops, mandate that all mechanics must be back on the other side before the car drives off?
This would increase the length of pitstops, and tempt teams towards making les pitstops. This means heavier cars, and tyres being made to last longer, so probably being made harder. Not saying it's a bad idea, but these things always have a big knock-on effect.
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Old 1 Jul 2007, 20:35 (Ref:1951783)   #10
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Well, its been suggested before (by myself and others) - an interlock in the fuel filler that won't allow the clutch to engage until the hose is removed. It could be made very reliable with a reed switch in the car and a permanent magnet in the hose.
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Old 1 Jul 2007, 20:37 (Ref:1951789)   #11
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Very good idea
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Old 1 Jul 2007, 22:13 (Ref:1951867)   #12
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Yes,good idea.But it's just something else that might go wrong! The cars are (or can be made) strong enough these days to hold the fuel for an entire race in complete safety.
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Old 1 Jul 2007, 22:18 (Ref:1951871)   #13
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Why not just replace Albers?
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Old 1 Jul 2007, 22:43 (Ref:1951886)   #14
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Why not just replace Albers?
Bring back Ide!

I still think that placing up to a dozen human beings around hot machinery with upteen litres of fuel and air lines waving around in a high pressure situation is just asking for trouble.
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Old 1 Jul 2007, 22:46 (Ref:1951892)   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveA
Well, its been suggested before (by myself and others) - an interlock in the fuel filler that won't allow the clutch to engage until the hose is removed. It could be made very reliable with a reed switch in the car and a permanent magnet in the hose.
i was thinking similar some sort of system that prevents gears being selected or the clutch engaging prior to the hose being removed. good idea, email it to max and he'll probably reply telling you its too sensible and probably outline some plans for hovercars or dancing bears at the bottom of the email


christian albers mentioned post race that the car was quite good in the first stint, but then the balance changed a bit, probably mainly due to the extra weight of the rig dangling from the side of the car and the fact that its a bit like a brick aerodynamically!

Last edited by GolddustMini; 1 Jul 2007 at 22:51.
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Old 1 Jul 2007, 22:58 (Ref:1951898)   #16
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Originally Posted by GolddustMini

christian albers mentioned post race that the car was quite good in the first stint, but then the balance changed a bit, probably mainly due to the extra weight of the rig dangling from the side of the car and the fact that its a bit like a brick aerodynamically!
Maybe they were trying to get an under weight car legal again.Expect to see more of the same as the Championship hots up.
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Old 1 Jul 2007, 23:03 (Ref:1951902)   #17
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Originally Posted by martyn bott
Bring back Ide!

I still think that placing up to a dozen human beings around hot machinery with upteen litres of fuel and air lines waving around in a high pressure situation is just asking for trouble.

I agree martyn, it's way too dangerous.. For the safety of all involved, re-fuelling should be banned. Then get rid of Albers..
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Old 1 Jul 2007, 23:12 (Ref:1951905)   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martyn bott
Maybe they were trying to get an under weight car legal again.Expect to see more of the same as the Championship hots up.

a couple of mechanics tied to the skipping rope should allow them to run a 400kg car for most of the race!


i spotted something on autosport about super aguri telling spyker to lodge a protest and stop sending than sending complaint letters
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"dear whom it may concern

you smell really really bad and your car is illegal (but quicker than ours). we are gonna do you over behind the bikesheds after lunchbreak.
my dad could beat your dad in a fight

regards
all at spyker"
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Old 2 Jul 2007, 01:21 (Ref:1951937)   #19
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How about not letting the car off the jacks until the fuel hose is disconnected
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Old 2 Jul 2007, 03:20 (Ref:1951952)   #20
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i can't believe that happening at this level the last time i seen something similar was at Bathurst in the V8's when Murph coped a 5 minute penalty, i think it was a timely penalty he had to use the toilet as soon as he pitted to do the penalty he was ver peeved off to say the least, so maybe if the fuel rig broke off the car and Albers kept going he would of got a similar penalty.
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Old 2 Jul 2007, 05:04 (Ref:1951983)   #21
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At the very least, perhaps the pit crew mechanics should be recognised by the FIA as trained. By that i mean like the drivers have to have superlicenses and pass medical tests, the mechanics need to pass FIA competancy tests.

Whilst these mistakes seem to be split between the mechanics, the driver and the pit controller, it seems to reason that making sure the mechanics as well as drivers are recognised as competant would surely leave less danger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by McKendrick
Fuel stops can be dangerous, but if everyone is fuelled to last the whole race the cars will all weigh the same and just follow each other!!
The weights depend on how you would re-write the rules. If say you enforce all teams to start with 200L of fuel, the weights will be very similar, but not the same as the teams will still be using different fuel blends.

If, however, you just ban refueling and leave the teams to start on how much fuel they predict will get them through the race, then the differences in fuel consumption will leave some cars lighter and others heavier.
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Old 2 Jul 2007, 05:36 (Ref:1951990)   #22
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Fuel stops should def stay. This is F1 and if you can't complete a fuel stop properly, well you should get another job. Instead of using a lollypop, use something more substantial that completely blocks the drivers vision so he knows to stay still, and then lift it up when its time to go

Also, why do F1 teams not use go jacks when a car breaks down. Instead of doing a million point turn to get the car in the garage, they should use go jacks, like V8 Supercar teams, and you can move the car in its own length. Here are some if you don't know what I'm talking about:

http://toolprice.net/product/8508T?META=nextag-8508T
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Old 2 Jul 2007, 07:06 (Ref:1952016)   #23
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I think the blame lie squarely on Albers, and this incident should not be used as an excuse to ban pitstops.

Pitstops carry an element of risk, no doubts about it, but few have been seriously injured when we take into account the number of pitstops made over the past handful of years.

Albers simply just drove off when the lollipop is not lifted, and the pipe is still connected. Some distractions , but a very embarrassing and potentially dangerous error. In that, he ought to apologise for putting his mates at risk, and get a penalty
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Old 2 Jul 2007, 11:40 (Ref:1952209)   #24
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Niki Lauda also commented on the incident:"I hope they don't let him start next race, he should be banned from F1, this was the most stupid thing I've ever seen in Formula 1".

And the FIA have given Albers a 5000 Euro fine for dangerous driving.
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Old 2 Jul 2007, 12:14 (Ref:1952245)   #25
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Mike Gascoyne says he's mystified by this mistake

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/60436

and there's a lot of speculation on the net about Giedo Van Der Garde replacing Albers:

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpa...s_art_id=31966
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