[Tech Issue] Closed cockpits- Closer to reality then we might think?

[F1Guy]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Because it's not actually illegal. It has been argued it is a mounting system, which is not covered by the regulations. By the letter of the law it is legal.

They have been declared ILLEGAL and BANNED from Monaco onwards by the FiA. To be more specific, it's the winglets mounted above the mirrors that have been declared illegal. Surely something that is illegal in two weeks time at Monaco, would also be illegal this week in Spain right??

Whispers suggest a protest of Ferrari's results could be on the table. Let's see what happens after Sunday. Personally, I don't expect much change in results even if there was a protest. It's Ferrari after all.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

They have been declared ILLEGAL and BANNED from Monaco onwards by the FiA. To be more specific, it's the winglets mounted above the mirrors that have been declared illegal. Surely something that is illegal in two weeks time at Monaco, would also be illegal this week in Spain right??

Whispers suggest a protest of Ferrari's results could be on the table. Let's see what happens after Sunday. Personally, I don't expect much change in results even if there was a protest. It's Ferrari after all.

You asked a question and I provided the answer. The technical regulations allow for mirrors and mirror supports to be mounted on the halo. Ferrari says these are mirror supports. Technically they are not wrong, and it fits the regulations. The regulations are perhaps poorly written in this case and they do not fit the spirit of the regulations so have been told not to bring them back.

Nikolas Tombazis of the FIA made the following comment:
"Now it is our responsibility to make sure that the rules are specific enough, and we hope to also make improvements in the future, to make sure the mirrors achieve their real function, which is to be able to see at the back, and to stop them being used for aerodynamic purposes."

If you are not happy with the answer I suggest emailing Mr Tombazis to tell him. Whispers suggest he won't pay much attention.

[F1Guy]

"The FIA confirmed that mirrors could be mounted from the Halo following the Chinese GP - but still had many guidelines and insisted that any design must fit with their technical regulations."

So the mirror "supports" do not fit the FiA's technical regulations. No loophole to close up. No need to change the regulations or guidelines, as the regulations and guidelines are clear enough for 9 of the 10 teams it seems. Ferrari have pushed the regulations too far and introduced an illegal part. But have asked for a dispensation as it will be too difficult (IOW the cars will be slower) to revert back to the old mirror/halo set up.

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/124...ned-for-monaco



Ferrari also ran with wing mirrors that did not comply with the technical regulations in China, and had to make a change prior to Baku. Another special Ferrari dispensation??

What if Ferrari score big points this weekend with their illegal wing mirrors, and the points gained make the difference in the championship?

[Akrapovic]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f...onaco-1036475/

They will be removed from Monaco due to an FIA Technical Clarification. In other words - they aren't specific enough, and therefore can be interpreted as legal. Just like Nikolas Tombazis of the FIA said. Just like always happens.

If you have any super secret inside whispers then I'm sure the FIA will be happy if you forward it to them so they can investigate it.

[F1Guy]

Here's one of the other 9 teams interpretation of the regulations on the halo mounted wing mirrors. Totally legal, unlike Ferrari's version.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

What if Ferrari score big points this weekend with their illegal wing mirrors, and the points gained make the difference in the championship?

So what if they do? - the FIA have said they are allowed to run them this weekend, so the result will stand.

Everyone else will just get on with it - and the majority of people won't care about it in a few weeks time....

Sky Sports are sensationalising the issue using language such as 'illegal', which is standard Sky practice and shouldn't be seen as too coherent with the majority of the grid's view on the matter.
Most will see that Ferrari have tried something within an interpretation of the regulations, the FIA feel they do not want this type of development so are issuing a clarification for use after the Spanish GP.

In other words - the device is 'legal' (if you want to use that phrase) under current regulations, but will become 'illegal' from the point when the regulation clarification is released onwards.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

In other words - the device is 'legal' (if you want to use that phrase) under current regulations, but will become 'illegal' from the point when the regulation clarification is released onwards.

That's the best summation of the situation that I've read. You should send your CV to Sky Sports. That sentence is better than their entire article!

[Adam43]

It’s a good way to deal with the situation. More things could benefit from a reasonable approach like this.

[S griffin]

I feel it's a sensible solution, let them run it this weekend, then in the interests of the sport not run it from Monaco onwards

[wnut]

Halo saves its first life!

F2 race Spain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxeHcubFE70

Looks like the statement is accurate based on the marks on the monocoque.

[Adam43]

Charlie Whiting was more circumspect on whether it saved a life.

Although it clearly didn’t hurt having it there.

[S griffin]

There's no doubt it helped, but whether it made a difference we don't know

[bjohnsonsmith]

Looking at this photo, the Halo more than helped.

[wnut]

That picture is a great find BJ! Thank you for sharing.

Given that is a spinning wheel and the amount of work it put into the halo, I don't believe it would have broken Makino's neck if it had touched his helmet.

[Casper]

He was a lucky boy wasn't he!

[wnut]

Great save for the HALO again: Leclerc Spa 2108.

https://www.msn.com/en-au/sport/moto...n=true#image=2

[Akrapovic]

We can't say for sure it would've went wrong, but it seems likely the Halo did well here. What concerns me still is the Massa style incident, as the Halo still gives no protection at all to the front. I'd still like to see a screen fitted to the front. Even if it's just inserts over the Halo frame or whatever.

[Nononsensecapeesh]

The halo was somewhat vindicated by the fact that it saved Leclerc from having the full force of Alonso's car land on his head.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

We can't say for sure it would've went wrong, but it seems likely the Halo did well here. What concerns me still is the Massa style incident, as the Halo still gives no protection at all to the front. I'd still like to see a screen fitted to the front. Even if it's just inserts over the Halo frame or whatever.

I'm going to be (slightly pedantic here (sorry) but if it comes directly from the front, the object will hit the central support bar of the halo. If it comes with an upwards or downwards (more likely) trajectory it will still more than likely hit the halo too in my opinion. The only way it can get through is if it is smaller than, and flies straight between the top of the cockpit and bottom of the halo.

[Greem]

Having watched the first corner incident as it happened I'm really pleased that nothing came of it.

I am however really *really* disappointed - and getting rather tired - of the polarity about the Halo. It might well have saved Leclerc's head; it may not. The same could be said of the roll hoop, tub of both cars, deformable structures, cockpit side protection, HANS device, helmet, nose profile (high or low), wheel tethers, dry-break fuel hoses, etc, etc - but excepting the noses and high cockpit sides, of which the "They're ugly" arguments dissipated really quickly - they're accepted as part and parcel of the many-layered safety system that modern racing mandates and nobody argues about them.

It's not necessarily here that I'm talking about, really; despite our occasional spats I think Tenths manages to strike a pretty good balance.

There are however just too many howls from the extremes of both sides of a non-argument. The Halo, aesthetically perfect or not, is at least part of an answer to the obvious issue of having the driver's head exposed. And that, aesthetically perfect or not, is a good thing. Like flame retardant undies.

[Akrapovic]

In Massas case it would've missed both the top and centre bar.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rc...35464529818398

You can see from any front view of the halo that there's actually still a lot of space for an object to get through. But there are concepts that solve that too -

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f...672256/672256/

I'd just like to see a full solution.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I'd just like to see a full solution.

I agree. If I crap on the Halo it is generally because it is less than what the sport could have done and deserves. I haven't watched the Spa race yet (not sure I will), but I have seen a short video of the accident and it looks like it may have helped in that scenario. Which should not be a surprise. It has specific things I will do well. But just not as much as a full solution could.

Richard

[Adam43]

We’re back to where we were months ago.

The halo helps. There is no problem with introducing it, especially as it was he most developed solution at that point. The issue is now, is research continuing with it and other solutions to go the next step.

Of course there is the other argument htabit isn’t needed, but those photos don’t help that argument.

[S griffin]

I think we have to be thankful for the halo there. It’s here to stay

[bjohnsonsmith]

Charlie Whitting is saying, it's “little bit speculative” as to whether the Halo saved LeClerc.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/too-ea...clerc-whiting/

However, looking at this right hand side view of it, you can clearly see where Alonso's McLaren made contact.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...ernando-alonso