Mercedes not happy with McLaren

[Glen]

Mercedes are re-evaluating their involvement with McLaren - this thing does seem to run quite deep and to be rather more than a storm in a teacup.

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/...image-problem/

[ECW Dan Selby]

Anything other than McLaren - Mercedes sounds a bit strange now, does it not?

Selby

[Glen]

Indeed it does - plus Merc have 40% of McLaren (although it sounds as if they want to get some personnel in at high level of the board to try and help shift the culture).

[ECW Dan Selby]

I don't suppose a switch of investment to Brawn GP could be a possibility..?

Selby

[Paradise City]

They're trying to frighten McLaren. They'd be foolish to relinquish the Hamilton investment. All bets are off, of course, if Hamilton breaks with them.

[Marbot]

It sounds like someone is expecting the worst at the WMSC meeting next week.

[VIVA GT]

Personally I view this announcement as a combination of Scabre Rattling ("Come on McLaren, sort yourselves out or we're leaving"), and an opportunity to publically distance Mercedes from the present/current/latest contoversy.

[fourWheelDrift]

I wonder if Ron moved away from the CEO role (as well as team principle) so that it would be Martin rather than himself who has to suffer the indignity of stepping aside for Mercedes' Man.

[VIVA GT]

Hmm. I don't remember a sudden improvement in fortunes when the men at the top of Ilmor were replaced by suits from Stuttgart. In fact, I'm sure the situation worsened due to the lack of understanding of how a smaller business works, and a class of work cultures.

[av8rirl]

Well Mercedes are reportedly losing $1billion per month so it might suit them to shelve the F1 racing division?

The date with the WMSC might be giving them an excuse to save face i.e. lets pull out because McLaren are deemed to have brought the sport into contempt rather than we're pulling out because we're losing money hand over fist!

[Peter Mallett]

Reading in the electronic telegraph, it is reported that Vodafone might operate a performance clause ifthe WMSC finds against McLaren. Again, with the economic downturn, it does seem convenient.

[Glen]

That is going to be tough if it happens. Very big problems for the whole sport if a major sponsor pulls out. Hopefully the WMSC will have an eye of these kind of consequences - there's a hell of a lot of jobs at stake.

[Burnsie]

Apparently eight teams have been holding discussions with Cosworth about an engine supply for next season. If you assume that all three of the possible new entries have been holding these talks (Lola, Prodrive and USGPE) then that still leaves five others - perhaps all from the current grid? Obviously Ferrari, Toyota, Renault and BMW Sauber use their own engines, and I see no reason why Brawn GP and Force India would end their Mercedes partnership (and Red Bull is also reported to be interested in a Mercedes supply); so that leaves three teams - Williams, Toro Rosso and McLaren.

McLaren-Cosworth anybody...?

[ECW Dan Selby]

haha That sounds awesome!

Selby

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Burnsie

Apparently eight teams have been holding discussions with Cosworth about an engine supply for next season. If you assume that all three of the possible new entries have been holding these talks (Lola, Prodrive and USGPE) then that still leaves five others - perhaps all from the current grid? Obviously Ferrari, Toyota, Renault and BMW Sauber use their own engines, and I see no reason why Brawn GP and Force India would end their Mercedes partnership (and Red Bull is also reported to be interested in a Mercedes supply); so that leaves three teams - Williams, Toro Rosso and McLaren.

McLaren-Cosworth anybody...?

From that list, if Red Bull are looking to move away from Renault, then I could see how they would also possibly be looking at Cosworth.

As regards McLaren-Cosworth, would McLaren be interested in a move to an unproven engine, considering that they are probably the closest to developing a good engine-KERS combination.

[strider]

There's a story in this week's Autosport magazine that Red Bull are trying to get hold of Mercedes engines for next year, partly for performance and packaging reasons and partly due to the continued uncertainty surrounding Renault's future in F1.

[Burnsie]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

would McLaren be interested in a move to an unproven engine, considering that they are probably the closest to developing a good engine-KERS combination.

Judging by the way things seem to be going, McLaren might not have much choice in the matter. It's possible that Mercedes will decide to back Brawn GP as their "number one" team, while continuing to support one other team - possibly Red Bull??

[RaiseYourFist]

Yes, Mercedes should leave the team that just won the WDC to go support a bunch of nobodies that have to develop a car for twice as long to get an edge over the big boys.... Thats just ridiculous. By next year Brawns team will have surrendered its advantage from this year and will go back in its customary place at the back of the grid.

Mercedes are either going to completely quit the sport or they will continue to support Mclaren

[the.cosmic.pope]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

From that list, if Red Bull are looking to move away from Renault, then I could see how they would also possibly be looking at Cosworth.

Red Bull are also negotiating with Renault. I suspect the reason they have negotiations outside of Renault is in case Renault decide to pack up and leave, which has been a real possibility for a few years.

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by RaiseYourFist

By next year Brawns team will have surrendered its advantage from this year and will go back in its customary place at the back of the grid.

I don't know if you are completely new to F1, but the team Brawn is in tends to be the one to beat, and when he leaves it tends to fall back substantially...

[climb]

Originally Posted by av8rirl

Well Mercedes are reportedly losing $1billion per month so it might suit them to shelve the F1 racing division?

...

Yes, I think that, much more tham Macs, they dislike their current economic performances.

of course Macs' recent bad moves provide them with a comfortable "casus belli"

[Burnsie]

Originally Posted by RaiseYourFist

Yes, Mercedes should leave the team that just won the WDC to go support a bunch of nobodies...

I suspect that Ross Brawn and Christian Horner (and indeed Vijay Mallya) would contest your claim that they're a bunch of nobodies; and while Hamilton might be last year's WDC, he's not going to be challenging for the title this year. So if it's true that Mercedes aren't happy with the current situation with McLaren and they want to switch the bulk of their resources to another team, I can't see how they could be presented with a much better opportunity than currently exists.

[JamesH]

Originally Posted by Burnsie

I suspect that Ross Brawn and Christian Horner (and indeed Vijay Mallya) would contest your claim that they're a bunch of nobodies; and while Hamilton might be last year's WDC, he's not going to be challenging for the title this year. So if it's true that Mercedes aren't happy with the current situation with McLaren and they want to switch the bulk of their resources to another team, I can't see how they could be presented with a much better opportunity than currently exists.

If I were Mercedes, I'd use the excuse to get out completely, not switch to another team. To my eyes, switching teams makes the switcher look a bit too desperate, which they would want to avoid. They are losing so much money, that to spend on F1 would not be looking good to their shareholders/employees. It still amazes me anyone invests in F1 - I just cannot see how the benefits outweigh the costs.

[VIVA GT]

Yes but...
Although I agree that there are many reasons on the table that make it look like sound economic sense, I just can't see Mercedes not supplying an engine to the team they own 40% of, that's all.

[Glen]

Yet again that old tendency for taking a discussion straight to the most extreme conclusion! Just because they are less than satisfied, doesn't mean they are pulling out! I think it would comfort Mercedes to have more control at a high management level, and also to have a hand in the internal review of the McLaren culture - both those things would benefit both companies too, imo.