Round 4: Mosport 22-24 July 2011

[ubrben]

Originally Posted by NightStalk3r

Well he certainly didnt try not to hit him...

I think that was just a driver in the zone and not really paying attention to what was in front of him.

Totally deserved the penalty, but hardly malicious - why screw your own race up deliberately - pure brain fade. Werner is about as polite and well mannered as racing car drivers come.

Ben

[arakis]

anyone see the contact between magnesun and melo when Mag passed him

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Melo vs Magnussen, well until club racers ruin the battle for the GT lead

[NightStalk3r]

Originally Posted by arakis

anyone see the contact between magnesun and melo when Mag passed him

giving back the favour for what Villander did to Gavin earlier i guess.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Muscle Milk deserved that, they were simply better than Dyson on all levels this weekend.

Another good race in GTC!

[arakis]

I think it was more like gavin hiting vilander, from what I saw gavin mada a mistake, opened the door and vilander took it, gavin hit him just as the pass was made

[NightStalk3r]

Originally Posted by arakis

I think it was more like gavin hiting vilander, from what I saw gavin mada a mistake, opened the door and vilander took it, gavin hit him just as the pass was made

Red Tinted glasses make you go blind.

[Audi Racer]

...

[Audi Racer]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

Melo vs Magnussen, well until club racers ruin the battle for the GT lead

yep...and the club racer ran out of fuel as well....so he might as well have pulled over for Melo in the first place....its not like he was going to finish the race....darn! club racers.....Melo had the gap at 2 secs...then the club racers did there thing.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by NightStalk3r

They would need to find a better budget for that, Pay drivers wont cut it to fight at the front.

Pay drivers?

[ubrben]

Just worth noting the average straightline speed advantage of the Muscle Milk car over the #16 Dyson was ~7km/h over the race as a whole.

The Dyson cars set the fastest laps in LMP1 but struggled to clear traffic.

For the sake of balance can we have a series of rants about how unfair the restrictors are in LMP1 and how Michelin tyres can't be better than Dunlop because it's all down to the air restrictors...

Ben

[arakis]

no one said that dunlops were not better, nor that the BMW was not developed over the winter, but the fack is that the car was artificialy placed in the first place, the BoP rules state that the cars should be balanced withing 0.5% of the fastest car, not make it the fastest car. Once the BMW got developed enough to win races the restrictors should have been slownly downsized... qll this is irelevant because they are getting the 0.4mm downsize, and well see how much that will impact them...If what you say is true there should be no issues with them continuing to be the fastest car right?

[ubrben]

Originally Posted by arakis

the BoP rules state that the cars should be balanced withing 0.5% of the fastest car, not make it the fastest car.

Interesting straw man. The regs also don't say that it can't become the fastest car either. That point is irrelevant.

The adjustments are based on a reasonable expectation that the adjustment would close the gap. It can't make assumptions about winter development.

Over the winter BMW did a great job with the car. Dunlop worked hard and RLL did two 12-hour race simulations before Sebring - this is earned success and was in no way offered up on a plate.

Ben

[arakis]

no quarels with their development, it was exlecelent, but now I like them to show what they can do with the same hp numbers as everyone else... not with 30-50hp more... based on how much their speed drops will know how much of their current speed is due to development and how much to having 30-50 hp more then everybody elsi in the field..

[ubrben]

Originally Posted by arakis

no quarels with their development, it was exlecelent, but now I like them to show what they can do with the same hp numbers as everyone else... not with 30-50hp more... based on how much their speed drops will know how much of their current speed is due to development and how much to having 30-50 hp more then everybody elsi in the field..

Completely agree. That's why they've got smaller restrictors for Mid Ohio - in line with the regulations. Like I said, apart from IMSA being too slow to issue a bulletin, everything's been by the book.

I can understand people not liking BMW being so dominant, but why the tone of voice that there's some kind of conspiracy??

Ben

[arakis]

simply because a heavily BoPed car is dominating, and that, no matter how big the development of RLL and BMW is, will always taint their wins.

Personaly in my oppinion, with all the alowences alowed to the BMW, the day that they win by using the regular 28.6 restrictors is the day I Congratulate them. I am impressed with their development though. But I guess anyone can dish out huge amounts of cash for a 2-3 years and exit the stage....

P.S. offtopic, has anyone seen how provocative Corvette ads were during the race....they are making it look like that ferrari actualy had a chance, when the fackt is that the race was won not when the ferrari was passed but when ferrars electrics broke, an hour before..

[ubrben]

Originally Posted by arakis

simply because a heavily BoPed car is dominating, and that, no matter how big the development of RLL and BMW is, will always taint their wins.

Personaly in my oppinion, with all the alowences alowed to the BMW, the day that they win by using the regular 28.6 restrictors is the day I Congratulate them. I am impressed with their development though. But I guess anyone can dish out huge amounts of cash for a 2-3 years and exit the stage....

P.S. offtopic, has anyone seen how provocative Corvette ads were during the race....they are making it look like that ferrari actually had a chance, when the fact is that the race was won not when the ferrari was passed but when ferrars electrics broke, an hour before..

With the Corvette ads, it's called marketing. If you're the sort of person who buys into it you're not going to look into enough detail to find the "objective" reality. Marketing is about emotions not facts - why are you surprised?? Look back at any ad from even 20 years ago - and it's more literal than now, go back to the 50s and it's very simple telling people what the product does. These days it's about how the product makes you feel, and a Corvette winning Le Mans by being slow and driving passed a Ferrari that broke and a BMW with a misfire isn't a good "story"

If you want to talk "heavily BoP'd cars" get real. In the end the Ferrari is a mid-engined nicely balanced race car. The behaviour of IMSA and ACO recently has been to keep the Ferrari fixed as it is the "purest" race car and BoP the Porsche and BMW around it. If Lizards had won 3 in a row (as they've done in the past) would you be screaming about a heavily BoP'd car with 25Kg less winning everything? Of course you wouldn't.

I understand the reason for this. Porsche and Ferrari (and Corvette to a degree) have supported GT racing more than BMW, who have historically come in, won, and left. This creates a bad feeling in the non-BMW fans, but the facts are clear - the rules have been implemented entirely to the letter both in adding performance to the BMWs and then taking some of it back.

Remember facts are for BoP discussions, feelings are for adverts.

Ben

[JHamilton]

I am a rabid sports car fan. I had no idea Mosport was this weekend. F-you internet broadcast package.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

I am a rabid sports car fan. I had no idea Mosport was this weekend. F-you internet broadcast package.

Just wondering, how do you find out about the races? not the internet?

But about that, I watched the stream and thought the quality was pretty good. Then I saw the race in HD on ESPN2, and I realized the stream quality isn't that good.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by arakis

simply because a heavily BoPed car is dominating, and that, no matter how big the development of RLL and BMW is, will always taint their wins..

Dominating? Clearly we are watching different races, or perhaps you are just looking at the results?

Personally I think IMSA has done a great job with BoP. The qualifying times are incredibly close, and the races are pretty close given the race lengths.

[WolfsburgRS]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Dominating? Clearly we are watching different races, or perhaps you are just looking at the results?

Personally I think IMSA has done a great job with BoP. The qualifying times are incredibly close, and the races are pretty close given the race lengths.

x2 - I think when you look at how close the qualifying times it's pretty clear that things are on fairly level ground for the most part. Various bits of bad luck or mistakes have cost teams which otherwise could have / should have won a race before this one. Pat Long had his accident at Long Beach, there were incidents at Sebring, both Corvettes taken out at Lime Rock, Risi's accident in practice at Lime Rock, the list goes on. This time BMW slipped up with two avoidable contact penalties and bam, new winner.

The competition level is such that if you make a mistake in GT, you're not winning. BMW so far had not made those same mistakes that everyone else has - and they avoided the 'bad luck' accidents that we've seen take out others. They have some of the best GT drivers in the world, well prepared cars, and are not short of funds. If they weren't the team to beat it would beg the question who should be? Because no one else has proved to be as competent in 2011.

[Audi Racer]

^^^X 6000.

^^^^

the truth....did the bmw look dominating in the race? are you confused.......You should recognize driver talent etc......

If youve noticed...the 56 BMW has been on point all year long.....The 55 BMW not so much...the 55 has been euqal with the other teams

the 56 car is the one that has laid down the ridiculous lap times.(therefore it must be the drivers)

Mueller and Hand use an oversteery setup(and they're quick). Auberlen and Werner prefer an understeery setup.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by joeb

Just wondering, how do you find out about the races? not the internet?

But about that, I watched the stream and thought the quality was pretty good. Then I saw the race in HD on ESPN2, and I realized the stream quality isn't that good.

Typically, if I am busy I set up the DVR on Friday when I get home to record everything I want to watch over the weekend. This normally would include sportscars, Indycar, F1, and the Aussie V8s. I watched the F1 and Indycar races this weekend, no sign of the ALMS. I know I can watch the race anytime (albeit in mono off my laptop), it's just annoying.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

Typically, if I am busy I set up the DVR on Friday when I get home to record everything I want to watch over the weekend. This normally would include sportscars, Indycar, F1, and the Aussie V8s. I watched the F1 and Indycar races this weekend, no sign of the ALMS. I know I can watch the race anytime (albeit in mono off my laptop), it's just annoying.

The ESPN2 race highlights (same day tape delay in the case of Mosport) should have come up on your program guide if nothing else. The highlights were pretty good I thought. I'm not sure why the first (and only?) FCY came out, but at least they were wise and decided not to show many laps of the cars circulating under yellow. The only thing of significance that I think they missed (hard for me to say since I have not seen the full race) is perhaps one of the Muscle Milk pit stops. Did they have a splash for fuel toward the end that Dyson did not? They implied that the #6 needed a splash, but they never talked about it afterward.

As far as all the GT posts are concerned, those posts remind me of why I don't take GT racing all that seriously. BoP belongs where this came from.

I wonder if Clint Field is going to have to sit Jon Field down and have that little chat about not crashing out teammates. Especially ones who are running well and might be bringing money! Wow, was that an ambitious move or what? Jon Field is a weapon out there in the close confines of LMPC racing. On the other hand, the GTC battle for the win was quite good. I was wondering if von Moltke was going to move Pumpelly out of the way there at the end, but I was pleased to see that he restrained himself more than a lot of the platinum drivers would have! That was some good, clean racing. Of course, we'll have to see if Pumpelly means what he said regarding owing Werner one!

[joeb]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

Typically, if I am busy I set up the DVR on Friday when I get home to record everything I want to watch over the weekend. This normally would include sportscars, Indycar, F1, and the Aussie V8s. I watched the F1 and Indycar races this weekend, no sign of the ALMS. I know I can watch the race anytime (albeit in mono off my laptop), it's just annoying.

I'm usually in the same boat as you regarding DVR'ing things and getting to them later. That was how I often saw the ALMS last season too. I have been making it a priority to watching these streams live this season, and I am constantly getting questioned by my better half every race this year as to why I can't record the race. when I explain it is often followed by a rolling of the eyes!