2012 IndyCar schedule

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Yannick

Here's hoping that Randy Bernard keeps the balance between ovals and road/street courses. He is quoted as saying it's either Phoenix and maybe another ISC track or no ISC tracks at all. I wonder what other ISC oval he might be after.

Scheduling IndyCar is difficult because so many good tracks are located relatively close to each other. The Sonoma-Laguna-Fontana cluster is not the only one. There is also the one just south of the Great Lakes: Milwaukee-Chicagoland-Road America-Michigan Speedway-Detroit.

Unless those markets were doing much better, I'm afraid that the Series is likely to host only one race in the areas. And at the time, that's Sonoma because of the deal with Bruton Smith, and the Milwaukee Mile because the fans wanted it. Now that is something. They put it back on the calendar because the fans wanted it. Imagine any other motor sports series promoter, say, Bernie Ecclestone doing that. He just wouldn't.

Fans have been requesting Phoenix recently as the series does not really go to the southwest at the time, so let's hope he gets it.
And most important of all, let's take these one track at a time.

Quebec? Well, I wonder why there is still no track on in the northwest. For a Canadian track, I'd prefer Vancouver, but I guess they put some buildings in its path at some point. Besides, the oval-twisties balance must be kept and it's already swinging a lot towards road courses these days.

All of it doesn't really matter unless you find a promoter willing to pay irlcar's jacked up franchise fee. If you can't find that there is really no point in wishfully hoping this track or that track will turn up on the schedule. irlcar has also turned to doing track rentals, which means they have to pay all sorts of expenses before they can collect any excess of revenue for the weekend. And likely with irlcars attendance in recent times, that's a risky proposition that just exposes irlcar to more financial losses.

[Purist]

Yannick, Quebec has more population density. And unless IndyCar is going to sort out wet races on ovals, it's a road race or bust near Seattle-Tacoma or Portland.

Also, the California tracks are pretty darn spread out. Not to mention, California has absurd population density compared to much of the rest of the country, so it's not such a stretch for them to have more races. Milwaukee and Chicagoland are fairly close, but it's a fair drive around the lake and up to the the Detroit area. The Ohio tracks are in relatively close quarters, but like California, that state has enough people that it's certainly doable to have both Mid Ohio and Cleveland.

Back in the GTP days, IMSA had as many as FIVE races in Florida (Daytona, Miami, Sebring, West Palm Beach, Tampa or Daytona 24, Miami, Sebring, West Palm Beach, Daytona Finale).

Mountainstar, being wistfully hopeful beats the hell out of just being depressed about the situation.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Purist

Mountainstar, being wistfully hopeful beats the hell out of just being depressed about the situation.

I think you have to be realistic. This is a series that has never turned a profit in 16 years nor has a track record of profitable events, so much so many permanent race tracks have even been closed permanently in the irls wake or they have lost long established events.

Especially in this economy, no promoter is interested in taking a $1-$3 million dollar loss on an irl event. This series is not the hot ticket. Baltimore hasn't even got off the ground and they've been having financial problems the past few months.

People are always generating these fantasy schedules and events which have no basis in reality. Find the person who will pay the $2 mil franchise fee first.

[NaBUru38]

Phoenix has two plusses: it's a short, flat oval and it's in the west. There's no oval race in the west now.

[tkelland]

Originally Posted by Purist

The Ohio tracks are in relatively close quarters, but like California, that state has enough people that it's certainly doable to have both Mid Ohio and Cleveland.

Mid-Ohio pulls fans from all over the Northeast. I ran into a group of people at Mid-Ohio one year, then ran into them at Watkins Glen 6 hour the next year where they told me they'd travel to Lime Rock and then I saw them again at Mid-Ohio for the second time. The ALMS/IndyCar joint event at M-O draws fans from a much larger radius. However, Cleveland can continue to draw well for a standalone open wheel event because much of the attendees will walk to the event or drive a short while but not nearly as far as Mid-Ohio or further. Both would work well and definitely have differing target audiences.

[Purist]

MS, face it, most people don't know that many people who are that high up. They don't "game the system" to get there either, because relatively few people naturally have that kind of savvy, and because so many of the methods to do so are morally abhorant (or even criminal). They also don't do it because many of the people up there, and their suck-ups, act like pricks towards those they see as mere peons, and so, who in their right mind wants to be around people who treat them like that?

So, the best that most can honestly do, is look at the series we want to support, and voice what we'd like to see it become.

On top of that, for a good majority, it's a pastime they want to derive pleasure from. It ceases to be that if you insist that they make a labor of it to be "realistic" about it, as you put it.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Phoenix has two plusses: it's a short, flat oval and it's in the west. There's no oval race in the west now.

Last time irlcar was there they drew 7000 people.

That's seven with three zeros after it.

Minor American dirt track or stock car events can draw more people.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Purist

So, the best that most can honestly do, is look at the series we want to support, and voice what we'd like to see it become.

On top of that, for a good majority, it's a pastime they want to derive pleasure from. It ceases to be that if you insist that they make a labor of it to be "realistic" about it, as you put it.

Sure, people can create all sorts of fantasy situations or dream scenarios, I guess if that pleases them.

But there is the real world and the $$$ signs don't add up which is why the irl is constantly fiddling to keep a schedule together. So I can't see the point in discussing things that aren't going to happen.

[Purist]

How do you make anything happen if you don't have a vision of what you want to see happen in the first place?

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Purist

How do you make anything happen if you don't have a vision of what you want to see happen in the first place?

Someone had one of those peyote vision things 20 years ago and look where we are now.

I understand your perspective Purist but the irl is like watching rats clinging to the Titanic. They blew it and it's not coming back under the current guise. The latest TV ratings are going to put paid to a lot of that. For the TV ratings they have if it was Lawn Darts, they'd be doing good, but this is a sport that takes millions for one team to survive. The total real media value of an entire car of sponsorship is now less than a million bucks and the only reason why cars are out there is due to patronage, rich ride buyers that couldn't hack it in europe and B2B dealings.

It will not surprise me if that 2012 car doesn't turn up, it's already delayed and if honda bails as well.

The only way for American open wheel to survive is to get out from under the thumb of the backwards speedway types. The problem is the open wheel ego war all but killed any enthusiasm for the sport on behalf of the public out there and therefore potential buyers.

Based on what I have witnessed, people like penske, george, ganassi couldn't care two hoots what fans think. They've got their ego to massage and they are more than happy to elbow you out of the way.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

It will not surprise me if that 2012 car doesn't turn up, it's already delayed and if honda bails as well.

I thought a car sans engine was going to appear at Indy.

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...12-car-update/

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Based on what I have witnessed, people like penske, george, ganassi couldn't care two hoots what fans think. They've got their ego to massage and they are more than happy to elbow you out of the way.

If they don't give two hoots about their fans that will certainly limit where and what they are going to race as the fans won't turn up.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I thought a car sans engine was going to appear at Indy.

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...12-car-update/

A static display of what? An actual chassis?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

A static display of what? An actual chassis?

The article doesn't say it is, then again it doesn't say it isn't.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

The article doesn't say it is, then again it doesn't say it isn't.

AFAIK they haven't finalized the design or built a complete prototype. Apparently the only thing they might have is a safety cell.

[NaBUru38]

No, no, they said they would show two cars with totall different bodies.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

No, no, they said they would show two cars with totall different bodies.

They just won't have the engines.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

No, no, they said they would show two cars with totall different bodies.

Well we will see, but at the moment what you will likely see is just an "artists impression" not the actual car.

[bjohnsonsmith]

It looks like there may be a second race in Brazil next year.

http://www.indycar.com/news/show/55-...ent-in-brazil/

[NaBUru38]

September would be terrible for me, right in the middle of the uni semester.

[NaBUru38]

The F1 has pencilled the 2012 Montreal race on June 10 and the Austin race on June 17. With the Indianapolis 500 to be held on May 27, where could IndyCar fit the Fort Worth race?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

The F1 has pencilled the 2012 Montreal race on June 10 and the Austin race on June 17. With the Indianapolis 500 to be held on May 27, where could IndyCar fit the Fort Worth race?

Have it the first weekend of June after Indy. The Milwaukee Mile used to be run the weekend after Indy.

[mitchbr]

That's just Bernie at work. He said the race would be at one end of the season or the other to avoid the heat. But Wait! IICS is racing in TX in mid-June! *scribble scribble*

[NaBUru38]

IndyCar races at sunset/night. That's unrealistic for a F1 race in this continent.

[Jacques Rabbit]

Race fans are race fans, but I have to say, I don't expect the Fort Worth IZOD IndyCar Series crowd to be too drawn to the Grand Prix that may or may not happen. Eddie Gossage stops for no one. He'll stand firm and keep his date, and I doubt it will cause any drama other than any shots he may take at F1 in his ESPN column.

I do wonder if the Texas race will retain the Twin 275s format, or go back to one big race. I know they do what they have to to keep the 50-50 split, but with a new car, having spare cars/parts/engines for the second race might not be logistically possible as it is this year.

Any further word on the talks with ISC? I know they were looking at a Phoenix race in early February and a Chicagoland race if the IZOD IndyCar Series could be the promoters, rather than ISC, but I haven't heard much lately. I don't want to see 50-50 become an impossibility due to the politics of big-time oval racing in the U.S.

[NaBUru38]

We will have to wait two more months to get any solid rumors.