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Old 4 Jun 2003, 09:55 (Ref:620231)   #1
ADnet
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SuperTouring Vs New BTCC

Now then, does anybody actually have a clue as to how similar / different the new cars and the supertourers are in performance?? i thought i would bring this up. there cant be that much difference because they still do 150Mph+ at thruxton etc and they acc to 60Mph in 3 secs so... :confused:
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Old 4 Jun 2003, 10:09 (Ref:620250)   #2
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Hobson should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridHobson should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Formula Saloons (ST's from '90s) are doing the same lap times as BTCC now, and they sometimes are quicker.

Bearing in mind the FSaloons run engines slightly detuned for a longer life, and different rubber to when the ST's were works cars, I think the ST's back in their time were a lot quicker over a lap than the current BTCC.
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Old 4 Jun 2003, 10:10 (Ref:620253)   #3
ADnet
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yeah, but the MG's V6 beasty seems powerful + the cars are practically the same (not cosmetically) but the componants are the same just cheaper and all from same manufacturer.
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Old 4 Jun 2003, 10:25 (Ref:620275)   #4
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touringlegend should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridtouringlegend should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridtouringlegend should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
0-60mph in 3 secs, I'd estimate it's at least 5 seconds...

Main difference, as you say is the common components. The cars are not allowed to be developed as extensively as the Super Tourers were, they also cannot test as much (which in my books means they won't go as fast as they can't evolve the car). Engine power is down slightly too, ST had around 300bhp whereas BTCT is about 270-290bhp - that's what the manufacturers quote as their engine power.

Exotic materials such as carbon fibre are not allowed except for safety reasons, this in turn means the cars are a little heavier, infact I think the base weight nowadays is 200kg more than ST.

Putting all that into consideration it's pretty impressive these cars are only a few seconds a lap slower than Super Tourer's.
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Old 4 Jun 2003, 15:52 (Ref:620717)   #5
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speedy king should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridspeedy king should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I was looking at past Thruxton times a few months ago on a forum (think it might have been this?) but the 2002 Thruxton times were the same as the 1997 times
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Old 4 Jun 2003, 15:53 (Ref:620719)   #6
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speedy king should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridspeedy king should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Is it just me or do any of you think this years cars are a bit faster than the 2002 ones? The Vauxhalls and especially the MG's sound alot more powerful
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Old 4 Jun 2003, 16:02 (Ref:620727)   #7
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touringlegend should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridtouringlegend should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridtouringlegend should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Only to be expected they will be a few tenths faster each year, normally.

BTW - you have to remember Thruxton had a load of new tar and bumps modified a few years back, that took a few seconds off the lap.
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Old 4 Jun 2003, 17:13 (Ref:620796)   #8
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Let's do a comparison of the '01 BTCC and '99 BTCC which I have easy access to, courtesy of my Touring Car World Annuals! I don't have '02 records yet.

Comparing Fastest Laps

'99 BTCC (sprint,feature race)
Donington Park 155,154.5 kph
Silverstone 153,148 kph
Thruxton 172,179 kph
Brands Hatch 140,143 kph
Oulton Park 149,146 kph
Croft 147,146 kph
Snetterton 151,157 kph
Knockhill 141,135 kph

'01 BTCC (sprint, feature race)
Donington Park 123,129 kph
Silverstone 139,126 kph
Thruxton 163,169 kph
Brands Hatch 142,135 kph
Oulton Park 146,152 kph
Croft 125,111 kph
Snetterton 128,136 kph
Knockhill 129,117 kph

So the new BTC cars seem to be about 10-15 kph slower than the ST counterparts in general. ST cars supposedly had closer to 320hp during the last few years of existence. This compares to the 290hp the BTC cars currently have.

OTOH, as someone mentioned, the lightest ST cars weight 975kg compared to the current 1180kg for BTC cars--a difference of 205kg!

Last edited by kmchow; 4 Jun 2003 at 17:22.
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Old 4 Jun 2003, 17:28 (Ref:620824)   #9
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OTOH, by '03, it seems BTC cars have closed the gap considerably? I guess that's what people call progress.

Incomplete '03 BTCC results (sprint, feature race)

Thruxton 172,172 kph
Brands Hatch 143,143 kph
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Old 4 Jun 2003, 18:20 (Ref:620889)   #10
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2006 supertourers?? the return?
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Old 4 Jun 2003, 20:19 (Ref:621034)   #11
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speedy king should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridspeedy king should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
So this years Thruxton speed was basically the same as the 1999 speed, thats pretty good!
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Old 5 Jun 2003, 06:55 (Ref:621445)   #12
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Sodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
With regards to the Thruxton speed. A following or head wind can make a massive difference in speeds.
The only reason Jason Plato still holds the Bathurst SuperTouring straight line speed of 164 MPH is because of a following wind.
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Old 5 Jun 2003, 07:11 (Ref:621460)   #13
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I recall hearing that the theoretical top speed for a ST car is 180mph? I guess no track can handle those speeds?

I think I recall ST cars in the STW have also reached speeds of 160mph+ It depends on the track as well?
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Old 5 Jun 2003, 08:14 (Ref:621500)   #14
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Top speed isn't that big a deal and has a lot to do with drag/downforce setup - it's lap times that count. It seems a bit like the days when World Rally went from Group B to Group A - everyone complained about how slow the Group A cars were. In a few years, the Lancia Delta Integrale and Celica GT-4 were beating the old Group B stage times.
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