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Old 9 Mar 2020, 10:23 (Ref:3962438)   #1
apriliadriver
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apriliadriver should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
HSCC and Frank Lyons

It has been four or five days since Frank Lyons stood down from the HSCC after being found culpable by the MSA Court for what was apparently a social media infraction.


That is quite a seismic event for HSCC since Frank has been a mainstay both as a Committee Member and particularly as a competitor.


What social media offence can possibly trigger such consequences ?
Nick
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Old 9 Mar 2020, 11:14 (Ref:3962443)   #2
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Wow. seismic indeed.
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Old 9 Mar 2020, 11:44 (Ref:3962452)   #3
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Yes indeed. I have no idea what he did or said. But it shows that whatever you do, someone is watching you.
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Old 9 Mar 2020, 11:52 (Ref:3962453)   #4
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Yes, Frank issued an email statement, and in the interests of clarity, this is a screen print of it......
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Old 9 Mar 2020, 11:54 (Ref:3962454)   #5
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yes, i received that too.
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Old 9 Mar 2020, 13:40 (Ref:3962472)   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apriliadriver View Post
It has been four or five days since Frank Lyons stood down from the HSCC after being found culpable by the MSA Court for what was apparently a social media infraction.
Nick

Nick
How do you know it was for a social media infraction?
If it was related to social media perhaps this may have consequences for other licence holders. I have been critical of some aspects of the MSA/MUK on this forum. Should I be worried?

Very sorry for Frank. He has put a lot of time and effort in his time as chairman and as a competitor.
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Old 9 Mar 2020, 13:59 (Ref:3962473)   #7
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If the MSA are turning into a bunch of 'snowflakes' there'll be some pretty small grids soon

shall I post my license back now ?
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Old 9 Mar 2020, 14:15 (Ref:3962476)   #8
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Peter,
His letter states that he transgressed the MSA social media rules, so I guess it is something to do with that.... but taking him to an MSA Court, obviously they felt that it was serious whatever it was. And Frank would have fought his corner, I am sure. I guess we have to wait for the next MSA Bulletin with court reports.
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Old 9 Mar 2020, 15:27 (Ref:3962508)   #9
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Originally Posted by apriliadriver View Post
Peter,
His letter states that he transgressed the MSA social media rules, so I guess it is something to do with that.... but taking him to an MSA Court, obviously they felt that it was serious whatever it was. And Frank would have fought his corner, I am sure. I guess we have to wait for the next MSA Bulletin with court reports.
Nick
The link refers to this.... https://www.motorsportuk.org/wp-cont...d-Guidance.pdf
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Old 9 Mar 2020, 15:52 (Ref:3962512)   #10
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I have been waiting for this to come up.

The new MSA regulations are having a huge impact everywhere, especially on Facebook, right now

Whole threads have been deleted as racers fear losing their license.

I am in two minds about the whole business

One one hand the idea of stopping online mobbing is completely valid.
On the other hand this means we dont have freedom of speech anymore in the racing community

In the end this comes down to how it is handled.

Even discussing the actual case here is thin ice for license holders

RuE
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Old 9 Mar 2020, 15:59 (Ref:3962520)   #11
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Not being a user of, or even understanding the various forms of Social Media, except maybe Ten Tenths, if it is in fact such a thing. I find it difficult to make any kind of sense of the 'Rules' posted here.

I have happily insulted any number of people on this forum. Should I be worried?
Also I have often been the subject of scorn and derision on here. Can I make a complaint to some Quango?

While I do not know Frank personally, I find it hard to believe he would have deliberately set out to malign anyone. Unfortunately too many people like nothing better than to 'take offence'. It is almost a national sport.

I hope that we can see Frank back in action before long. Best wished to him.

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Old 9 Mar 2020, 16:12 (Ref:3962531)   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morninggents View Post
Nick
How do you know it was for a social media infraction?
If it was related to social media perhaps this may have consequences for other licence holders. I have been critical of some aspects of the MSA/MUK on this forum. Should I be worried?

Very sorry for Frank. He has put a lot of time and effort in his time as chairman and as a competitor.
Question:
"I have been critical of some aspects of the MSA/MUK on this forum. Should I be worried?"

short answer: yes, but I depends when and what was posted

quote from MSA regulations:
"Do not criticise or imply bias in Motorsport UK Officials on social media platforms"

and the catchall phrase:
"Participants should be aware that comments which bring motor sport into disrepute, or are threatening, abusive, indecent or insulting, may lead to disciplinary action before the National Court and which may result in substantial fines or international bans from participation in the sport."


as i said, this will have a huge impact
there will be some high profile cases that will make everybody realise what to do and what not to do in a very short time

I learnt a lot during the last three weeks

I am also violently opposed to any form of:
"threatening, abusive, insulting behaviour"

so I can see what the MSA tries to achieve

RuE
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Old 9 Mar 2020, 16:42 (Ref:3962542)   #13
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I am so grateful I had raced in the 70's,80's 90's long before this internet thing.
Life was good, racing was good,dont get me wrong I still love what I do but all this is just a load of Bo--ocks.One thing for sure we are all going to read latest mag from MSA.
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Old 9 Mar 2020, 17:10 (Ref:3962548)   #14
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I am so grateful I had raced in the 70's,80's 90's long before this internet thing.
Life was good, racing was good,dont get me wrong I still love what I do but all this is just a load of Bo--ocks.One thing for sure we are all going to read latest mag from MSA.

I have been wondering about this

to actually repeat the offending posts in print would go against the very idea of the original rule, the MSA in roundabout way would fall foul of their own rule, if they printed the details

but yes, in the proceedings about the decisions, usually reasons are given
personally, I would expect the description of this case and the reasons for the decision to be very general in the magazine
at least, this is how I would handle this

RuE
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Old 9 Mar 2020, 17:41 (Ref:3962559)   #15
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Yes - that would probably be a prudent approach. However, they need to be careful to ensure they don't provoke a feeding frenzy of speculation...
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Old 9 Mar 2020, 20:02 (Ref:3962590)   #16
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Just checked and my MSUK licence lapsed some years ago so here goes.

They've got some problems.

In my world karting is fragmenting away from MSUK governance, including one prestigious national series that has allegedly attracted TV coverage on Sky Sports F1. I believe litigation by the MSUK is involved there. "IKR" as it has been dubbed is kart racing outside of the auspices of MSUK and is thriving.

Loads of new MSUK rules are sending people away, both drivers and teams. It will happen in car racing - already there are "non-MSUK" sprint series.

Actions like the treatment of Frank Lyons will further drive a wedge between the drivers and the self-appointed "governing body". Surely a dialogue is more appropriate than Draconian penalties, even if they are "pour encourager les autres"?

I think that MSUK has lost a good man and we will regret its actions. A sad day for motor sport.

I've checked and I can't see anything other than fact and fair comment here

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
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Old 9 Mar 2020, 21:27 (Ref:3962611)   #17
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Old 9 Mar 2020, 23:16 (Ref:3962631)   #18
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.......

I think that MSUK has lost a good man ...........
I think they've lost a lot more than that. Time will tell.
I had a read of the Policies & Guidelines, one part caught my eye:

"Most importantly…
A common-sense approach needs to be used by everyone involved in motorsport."

My italics, no further comment.
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Old 10 Mar 2020, 06:51 (Ref:3962650)   #19
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The interesting thing is that last year I emailed the MUK about an issue I had an opinion about and when I received a reply I was (presumably mistakenly) copied in on the internal email stream discussing my issue.
In one of those internal emails, a senior official within MUK made some personal and disparaging remarks about me (despite not knowing me) which I found offensive. I complained to the commercial director but was basically dismissed.
One rule for one......
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Old 10 Mar 2020, 07:43 (Ref:3962658)   #20
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If they’re so terrified about negative comment - that in itself tells you a lot about them...

It’s always annoyed that they’ve somehow got away with the (self-appointed) regulator claim.
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Old 10 Mar 2020, 11:08 (Ref:3962726)   #21
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THere does seem to be a shift happening

I don't know what license holder numbers are like in the last 20 years, but most people I raced with since 2004 have moved on, or at most doing a lot less.
I still have a license but haven't done much in recent years, its losing its gradually losing it's appeal, primarily due to unaffordability, and partly a change in character and atmosphere.

I say that despite actually having a half decent income again, the costs have spiralled everywhere.
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Old 10 Mar 2020, 12:55 (Ref:3962752)   #22
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Sad event

Whilst not personally knowing Frank - it's sad news for motorsport. Over the years the Lyon's have contributed a great deal and been willing to enter some expensive bits of kit.
I don't know what opinions Frank expressed, but I for one am not always politically correct and wouldn't want racing to be become a world where you had to keep your mouth zipped. Perhaps we could introduce VAR into racing to ensure there is no need for opinion and everything is perfect
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Old 17 Mar 2020, 11:21 (Ref:3964842)   #23
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Just received email from HSCC, seems Frank is standing for re election
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Old 17 Mar 2020, 11:46 (Ref:3964855)   #24
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Just received email from HSCC, seems Frank is standing for re election
Quite right too, deserves all our support.
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Old 17 Mar 2020, 14:45 (Ref:3964932)   #25
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Good news. I hope he is unopposed.
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