The Historically Accurate EV discussion

[crmalcolm]

The thing is, it's possible to find:

A) 'sources' who claim the idea of climate change is all lies and propaganda.
B) 'sources' who claim the idea of climate change denial is all lies and propaganda.

Both sides are arguing on, what appears to be, increasingly extreme agendas and scaremongering.

Which leaves the rest of us stuck in the middle. I could roll out numerous facts and studies 'proving' both sides of the argument. So which are the experts to believe, and which are the experts to ignore.

I personally look to both extremes as being impossible scenarios. So choose to accept the middle way. Climate change is not extreme, but marginal. Although it does exist in some form.
That means we as a species, and in society, must change. Although the change may be a challenge, it won't be catastrophic either.
Accepting that change will happen, why not embrace it? Look to the positives and the opportunities that it presents, rather than the negatives.
I'll leave the negatives for someone else to worry about, I won't let it concern me. Someone way above my pay grade can own the risk of failure.
There's nothing I can do about everyone else's choices regarding use of vehicles, but I can influence my own. I can argue why EVs don't suit my previous vehicle needs, or adjust my needs to meet what an EV gives me.

[Tel 911S]

Originally Posted by Adam43

So climate change is real, but people are using it to scam money out of the western world?

Or is the whole thing fabricated for that end?

The worlds climate has always changed naturally .
Every one of the climate predictions made by the UN IPCC has proved to be wrong .
https://alarmistclaimresearch.wordpress.com/

But the whole invention of human caused Climate Change is a lie to get money out of everybody . And a lot of the Politicians & media are pushing the lie to try to get their hands on some of it .

[Adam43]

Thanks for the clarification of your thoughts for that. You are of the opinion that it’s all made up. I must admit I hadn’t seen alarmistclaimresearch website before. It is clear that the mainstream don’t use sites like that, but use different cherry picking. As, it seems, do the academic community as a whole.

[S griffin]

It’s true, we have had natural changes. And whilst predictions from scientists have been wrong, they haven’t been far off.

But we still need to take precautions to protect the planet. No use claiming it’s all natural, these warnings aren’t without foundations and while I haven’t jumped on the bandwagon, I can see why people are concerned for the future of the planet

[crmalcolm]

An interesting read on the background of climate change, from the invention of the idea by Ancient Greeks and covering the works of such inventors as Fourier, Tyndall, Arrhenius, Callendar et al.

http://www.history.com/.amp/topics/n...climate-change

[midgetman]

I'm not nearly clever enough to understand all this, I'm just a hick kart mechanic from the sticks. I only go on what I see.

The weather on this planet *has* changed and very quickly. Yes I admit that the climate is always changing, but within the last 20 years I recognise what the climatologists were predicting. For a planet that's been around however many billion years that's a very short time frame. So when they tell me it's due to man made gas I do listen.

When I visit cities I can see the pollution as a haze over the city. That cannot be healthy. I've seen the photos of cities in lockdown with a reduction in that haze so I'm comfortable with attributing it to the reduction in traffic no matter what the clever people say. Experts eh, what do they know?

I think that anti climate change websites are on the whole a badly made, amateurish collection of words with "THE TRUTH" and "What's really happening" scattered around them. They make me think they are anything but the truth, they remind me of alien hunters and ghost busters. (I realise this is broad brush, it's meant to be)

Finally, I just don't buy this great scam theory. Firstly I don't think our average political class is that intelligent or devious. Secondly, it's too big a movement involving too many people. And thirdly, even if it is a scam, there are thousands of jobs being created and what's wrong with making London as nice to live in as Rural Wiltshire?

So yeah this member of the sheeple is happy to be conned. I know I'm a massive hypocrite because I earn my living from the ICE. I rationalise this by saying that motor sport will go the way of the horse and there will be so few people doing it in a tightly controlled situation that it won't affect the rest of the world.



Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Tel 911S]

The idea that CO2 has any measurable effect on the Climate has been the only thing that the AGM lobby have in their desperate attempt to con the public .
But despite huge amounts of money on offer & possible Nobel prizes , not 1 Scientist has been able to find a single fact supporting that claim .

There is evidence that water vapour , [ clouds ,] has a small effect on surface temperatures , but there is over 100 times more of that in the air than CO2 , which is just .004 % of the atmosphere . And the vast majority of the CO2 occurs naturally .

The amount of human produced CO2 is in fact , so small , that the world wide lockdown & massive reduction in it being emitted has had no effect whatsoever on the total amount of it in the air , and the overall percentage of it has continued to grow .


And as for Al Gores film " An Inconvenient Truth " .
A UK high court determined that it was such a load of lies , that schools must not show it to the kids to try to brainwash them , without explaining beforehand that it was not true .

[Adam43]

That’s that settled then. Even a thousand cherry picked articles and papers couldn’t argue against that.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Tel 911S

And as for Al Gores film " An Inconvenient Truth " .
A UK high court determined that it was such a load of lies , that schools must not show it to the kids to try to brainwash them , without explaining beforehand that it was not true .

Unfortunately, that is not what the judge hearing the case actually wrote in his judgement. I quote below his words, taken from Wikipedia which in this instance I believe to be accurate. And far from the film being a pack of lies, the judge found that there were just 9 factual inaccuracies, the rest of the film being based on the then scientific evidence, although it was presented in a way that reflected a certain amount of political bias.

Justice Burton's written judgment was released on 10 October 2007. He found that it was clear that the film "is substantially founded upon scientific research and fact, albeit that the science is used, in the hands of a talented politician and communicator, to make a political statement and to support a political programme." The necessary amendments made to the related guidance notes make it clear what the mainstream view is, insofar as the film departs from it. The notes also explain that there are views of deniers who do not accept the consensus reached by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. Given these amendments, the judge considered that the film was put in a context in which a balanced presentation of opposing views was offered and where it could be shown to students in compliance with the law. Given a proper context, the requirement for a balanced presentation did not warrant that equal weight be given to alternative views of a mainstream view.

The judge concluded "I have no doubt that Dr Stott, the Defendant's expert, is right when he says that: 'Al Gore's presentation of the causes and likely effects of climate change in the film was broadly accurate.'" On the basis of testimony from Dr. Robert M. Carter and the arguments put forth by the claimant's lawyers, the judge also pointed to nine of the statements that Dimmock's counsel had described as "errors" as inaccuracies; i.e, that were not representative of the mainstream. He also found that some of these statements arose in the context of supporting Al Gore's political thesis. The judge required that the guidance notes should address these statements.

[Tel 911S]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Unfortunately, that is not what the judge hearing the case actually wrote in his judgement. I quote below his words, taken from Wikipedia which in this instance I believe to be accurate. And far from the film being a pack of lies, the judge found that there were just 9 factual inaccuracies, the rest of the film being based on the then scientific evidence, although it was presented in a way that reflected a certain amount of political bias.

Wiki has got a very prominent record of not telling the truth , especially about "global Warming " , with an activist named William Connelly well known for altering altering actual facts into what he wants people to think .
This is a bit more accurate assessment of the film .
https://blog.world-mysteries.com/sci...l-gores-movie/
And here is another link to a lot of actual scientists & what they think of Al Gore .
https://soontrending.buzz/2017/11/15...ete-hoax-scam/

[Lancsbreaker]

Whilst not being wholeheartedly convinced that the last post addressed the Wikipaedia post, I do have some doubts about Wiki, too - here's a link to a Guardian article that does seem to record the judges comments as rather more critical than the Wiki entry shows....: https://www.theguardian.com/environm.../climatechange

[Tel 911S]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Unfortunately, that is not what the judge hearing the case actually wrote in his judgement. I quote below his words, taken from Wikipedia which in this instance I believe to be accurate. And far from the film being a pack of lies, the judge found that there were just 9 factual inaccuracies, the rest of the film being based on the then scientific evidence, although it was presented in a way that reflected a certain amount of political bias.

A quick reference to how Wiki is turned into Climate propaganda .

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/08/...erence-source/

And just checked the other link I put up about over 30,000 scientists saying Al Gore is lying .
It looks like that is one that is censored by Google . So can only be seen on other browsers .

[crmalcolm]

Whilst we're talking about EVs:

The world’s largest maker of batteries for electric vehicles has made a breakthrough with a power pack that lasts more than a million miles and has the potential to be reused.
'The Chinese company, Contemporary Amperex Technology Co. Ltd (CATL), which supplies Tesla and Volkswagen AG, has created a battery that runs for 16 years and 1.24million miles – the equivalent of making more than 400 journeys from coast-to-coast in the US.'

And an explanation of why EVs are the most efficient choice:


'It’s not purely about fuel efficiency either. You get more power at a greater efficiency. You don’t have to deal with the way inefficiencies show themselves — loud rumbling, a vibrating car, polluted air. You don’t have the costs that come with hundreds of devices meant to improve efficiency. More efficient just equals better.
Naturally, as battery costs come down, the fundamental efficiencies and benefits of electric powertrains show themselves more and more. Electric cars get more and more competitive — er, well, increasingly better than their inefficient competitors.'

[crmalcolm]

In more EV news, Ford and Volkswagen bosses have finalised their wide-ranging global alliance, which will involve the two giants working together on electric cars, pick-up trucks, vans and autonomous technology.

'Ford says it will “add another compelling nameplate” that will sit alongside the electric Mustang Mach-E. Ford has recently begun a trend of reviving old names for new vehicles, choosing to give its first bespoke EV Mustang branding and recently badging its new compact crossover as the Puma. It's also reviving the Bronco in America.'
Which historic name will we see on the next Ford EV? Capri, Probe, Consul?

And for those worried that there might not be enough choice in the EV market, the following models are all planned for release in 2020:

DS 3 Crossback E-Tense
Honda e
Skoda Enyaq IV
Polestar 2
Volkswagen ID 3
Seat el-Born
BMW iX3
Lotus Evija
Tesla Model Y
Volvo XC40 Recharge
Audi Q4 e-tron
Audi E-tron GT
Pininfarina Battista
Tesla Roadster
Rivian R1T

[Mike Harte]

People can make up their own minds about whether the Wiki article is essentially correct or not by reading the actual transcript from the judgement. Having skimmed through it briefly, I would accept that the Wiki summary is actually a fair representation of what Mr Justice Burton wrote.

The link to the judgement: https://elaw.org/content/uk-stuart-d...inconvenient-t

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

People can make up their own minds about whether the Wiki article is essentially correct or not by reading the actual transcript from the judgement. Having skimmed through it briefly, I would accept that the Wiki summary is actually a fair representation of what Mr Justice Burton wrote.

The link to the judgement: https://elaw.org/content/uk-stuart-d...inconvenient-t

I found this sentence in the judgement - 'It encouraged teachers to use the Film as a vehicle for the development of analytic and critical skills.'

Is that the link to EVs?

[crmalcolm]

Green numberplates for EVs given go-ahead

'Transport secretary Grant Shapps said: “Green numberplates could unlock a number of incentives for drivers and increase awareness of cleaner vehicles on our roads, showing people that a greener transport future is within our grasp.”'

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Green numberplates for EVs given go-ahead

'Transport secretary Grant Shapps said: “Green numberplates could unlock a number of incentives for drivers and increase awareness of cleaner vehicles on our roads, showing people that a greener transport future is within our grasp.”'

I've been thinking for ages that I just can't think of an incentive that would persuade me to buy an Electric Vehicle, then this came along.
Now I'm thinking I still can't think of an incentive that would persuade me to buy an Electric Vehicle...

[John Elwin]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I've been thinking for ages that I just can't think of an incentive that would persuade me to buy an Electric Vehicle, then this came along.
Now I'm thinking I still can't think of an incentive that would persuade me to buy an Electric Vehicle...

Isn't green considered to be an unlucky colour in the car world?

[Adam43]

I recall reading that green cars are more likely to have a crash. Not sure that will be influenced too much by a green number plate.

Used values aren’t always as good for green. Although is it any worse than doom blue?

[E.B]

Originally Posted by John Elwin

Isn't green considered to be an unlucky colour in the car world?

I always thought that to be an American 'myth' relating in particular to race cars. Stems AFAIK from the Vanderbilt Cup crash of Lee Oldfield who raced and crashed a green car into a crowded grandstand back in the early 1900's, killing a number of spectators. Then Gaston Chevrolet died in a green race car.
Bentley seemed OK with green cars a few years later....

[S griffin]

Maybe that’s why the Americans didn’t like Jim Clark turning up in his green Lotus at Indy and shaking up the establishment

[crmalcolm]

Does the color of your car increase the risk of a crash?
'That’s right: certain color cars are more likely to be in car accidents than others.'
Black,
Grey,
Blue,
Red,
Green,
Gold,
Orange,
Yellow,
White.

How Safe Is Your Car Colour?
'Yet again, Green has been voted the unluckiest colour for cars, racking up 36% of votes in a recent poll conducted by Be Wiser Insurance. [...]
It is not clear how this superstition about green cars originated, but for many years the colour green itself has been considered to be unlucky.'
'Previous studies have in fact revealed black cars to be the most dangerous as they are the least visible. This means that lighter colours such as white, gold and yellow are the safest because they can be seen easily'

[John Elwin]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I've been thinking for ages that I just can't think of an incentive that would persuade me to buy an Electric Vehicle, then this came along.
Now I'm thinking I still can't think of an incentive that would persuade me to buy an Electric Vehicle...

No need to get too ecstatic Viva - it's just a green strip in the same place as the old Brussels logo used to be.

[crmalcolm]

Recycling More Heat- Hyundai and Kia Turn Up EV Efficiency with New Heat Pump Technology

https://news.hyundaimotorgroup.com/M...echnology#none