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Old 27 Aug 2013, 14:23 (Ref:3294760)   #2426
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Originally Posted by avvelenamento View Post
New link, to this thread at least. Google translation is a bit messy:

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will have as an accumulator of energy a lithium-ion battery . This was revealed by Wolfgang Hatz , a member of the Board of Porsche AG and head of research and development, on the occasion of the presentation of the new 911 Turbo and Turbo S on the circuit Bilster Berg
Also mentioned: agreement was made with Webber already before Christmas.
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Old 27 Aug 2013, 14:28 (Ref:3294763)   #2427
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Thanks !
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Old 27 Aug 2013, 14:44 (Ref:3294770)   #2428
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Spyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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To yellow haters



There's nothing wrong with yellow. It's the shade of yellow that is/was not agreeable to some.
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Old 27 Aug 2013, 15:18 (Ref:3294783)   #2429
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...it starts to make some sense we're looking at a I-4 turbo for the Porsche LMP1 motor.
http://www.mulsannescorner.com/newsjuly13.html
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Old 27 Aug 2013, 15:45 (Ref:3294791)   #2430
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Maelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameMaelochs will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Well, if Mulsanne Mike agrees with me ... he must be right!
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Old 27 Aug 2013, 15:55 (Ref:3294793)   #2431
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I like the choice, it'll be a real challenge
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Old 27 Aug 2013, 16:02 (Ref:3294794)   #2432
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oh dear, so I was right to think as the exhaust that strange hole close to the fin.
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Old 27 Aug 2013, 16:11 (Ref:3294796)   #2433
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If my understanding is correct, Porsche have opted for a lithium-ion battery system as a way to store the energy. The article refers to technology developed by A123 Systems. Interesting.
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Old 27 Aug 2013, 17:15 (Ref:3294816)   #2434
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Another black or white LMP car? Please no! I miss the days of seeing that shot of the start of the race at Le Mans being an explosion of colour. They're all white or black these days.

Really hope they go for something different. Or an actual colour.
Agreed. Audi's current livery is so boring compared to what they had just a few years ago with the R15 and R15+. Even the Toyota livery isn't that exciting.

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There's nothing wrong with yellow. It's the shade of yellow that is/was not agreeable to some.
Fairly ironic given your avatar is one of said yellow Penske Porsches, no?

(Is this really what this topic has descended to? Discussing the merits of various liveries )
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Old 27 Aug 2013, 17:23 (Ref:3294821)   #2435
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Originally Posted by Thaw Daggerslash View Post

(Is this really what this topic has descended to? Discussing the merits of various liveries )

Yep, great innit?

Sometimes I just glaze over when we get to the 150th post on some specific technical detail of the front fenders.......

But hell, if it floats your boat!
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Old 27 Aug 2013, 17:24 (Ref:3294822)   #2436
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Originally Posted by Thaw Daggerslash View Post

(Is this really what this topic has descended to? Discussing the merits of various liveries )

Yep, great innit?

I tend to just glaze over when we get to the 150th post on some specific technical detail of the front fenders.......

But hell, if it floats your boat!
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Old 27 Aug 2013, 18:02 (Ref:3294843)   #2437
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Spyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSpyderman should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Thaw Daggerslash View Post



Fairly ironic given your avatar is one of said yellow Penske Porsches, no?

(Is this really what this topic has descended to? Discussing the merits of various liveries )
I'm glad you see the irony.
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Old 27 Aug 2013, 18:17 (Ref:3294849)   #2438
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Originally Posted by Thaw Daggerslash View Post
Agreed. Audi's current livery is so boring compared to what they had just a few years ago with the R15 and R15+. Even the Toyota livery isn't that exciting.
R15+, really? That "lets throw a can of red paint over the car in a wind tunnel and see where it sticks" livery was hideous.
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Old 27 Aug 2013, 18:36 (Ref:3294865)   #2439
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R15+, really? That "lets throw a can of red paint over the car in a wind tunnel and see where it sticks" livery was hideous.
Is this better ?
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Old 27 Aug 2013, 20:23 (Ref:3294907)   #2440
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I'm OK with it......

Personally, I preferred this one.....

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Old 27 Aug 2013, 20:29 (Ref:3294911)   #2441
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Is this better ?
Maybe original, but too much like a ridiculous car skin made for a video game.
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Old 27 Aug 2013, 20:34 (Ref:3294914)   #2442
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Maybe original, but too much like a ridiculous car skin made for a video game.
I like it personally. It was great to see this "crocodile-look" R8 at the occasion of the Adelaide race in 2000.

Bit off-topic I realize
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Old 27 Aug 2013, 20:52 (Ref:3294920)   #2443
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I'm hoping for Mobil 1 colors...
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Old 27 Aug 2013, 21:02 (Ref:3294924)   #2444
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I'm hoping for red, it won't happen but it'd be a nice 'tribute' to the 917.
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Old 27 Aug 2013, 22:52 (Ref:3294969)   #2445
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If my understanding is correct, Porsche have opted for a lithium-ion battery system as a way to store the energy. The article refers to technology developed by A123 Systems. Interesting.
This really explains why they have chosen the I4. I find hybrid solutions silly to begin with. Its really all petrol/diesel or all electric that makes sense. And for sustainability its all electric. Why would you want the weight of a petrol engine AND the weight of the batteries + e motors on front and rear axle?? The way I see it the minimum weight in the regulations merely allow hybrid solutions to exist. Hybrids are going to be phased out in the real world too in favor of all electric cars. Its entirely practical to just swap battery packs(if a system is developed for it) in a race and recharge the other during a stint. With all this fast charging and 97% efficiencies from the motor.

But if they want to use batteries then they'll need to keep the weight down in all other areas of the car including the engine. So no V8. If they are using Zytek Engineerings electric motors then there will be additional weight savings there. Of course those motors are very expensive. But they are featherlite in every sense of the word.
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Old 28 Aug 2013, 01:29 (Ref:3295007)   #2446
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I think this shot shows the exhaust position
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Old 28 Aug 2013, 02:21 (Ref:3295013)   #2447
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Why would you want the weight of a petrol engine AND the weight of the batteries + e motors on front and rear axle??
From looking at the A123 website, the battery packs can be sculpted to fit the space. They will probably provide a very centralized and low center of gravity in a compact package that can be constructed to distribute weight as needed. That was my first impression after seeing some of the products of A123.
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Old 28 Aug 2013, 06:18 (Ref:3295040)   #2448
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From looking at the A123 website, the battery packs can be sculpted to fit the space. They will probably provide a very centralized and low center of gravity in a compact package that can be constructed to distribute weight as needed. That was my first impression after seeing some of the products of A123.
Well, lets do us some calculations. If you wanna go the 8 MJ route, than you need a capacity of about 1,3 MJ (8 / 6,3 (i counted braking for Porsche Curves as 0.3). The weight of the Peugeot Battery Pack was about 24 kg for 0,5 MJ. So you need about 75 kg to reach it. The supercapaticor of the Toyota has about the same weight, beeing able to store up to 1 MJ. (thats why its on the right side of the car, but thats a different story to tell...)

If you wanna go the 4 MJ way, than you need about 40kg of batterypack to reach 0,7 MJ of energy to store.
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Old 28 Aug 2013, 08:29 (Ref:3295078)   #2449
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You are looking at this wrongly. Energy density is not an issue for lithium ion battery, power density is! The hybrid system needs to be charged in a very short period of time.

http://ev.sae.org/article/10599 gives the following numbers for the A123 battery pack in the electric Drayson Lola.
Quote:
The car’s 300-kg (661-lb) battery pack, which was manufactured by Mavizen of Gerrards Cross, U.K., consists of two inline-mounted modules containing lithium-ion nanophosphate cells from A123 Systems of Waltham, MA. The battery units, which are embedded in the structure itself to improve weight efficiency, reportedly deliver 60 kW·h of energy at 700 V (maximum).
That means an energy density of 60 kWh * 3.6 / 300 kg = 0.7 MJ/kg for that battery technology.

Again using the Drayson battery pack as example.
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The company's 4X2-640 electric drivetrain, which comprises four asynchronous pancake motors affixed to the rear axle, produces 850 peak hp (633 kW). The axial-flux motors were supplied by YASA Motors, a start-up firm that was spun out of nearby Oxford University.
That means a power density of 633 kW / 300 kg = 2.11 kW/kg for that battery technology.

Power density is the main reason why Toyota went for supercapacitors. The electric motor in the TS030 is 300 hp = 221 kW. A lithium ion battery would have to weigh more than 100 kg.
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Old 28 Aug 2013, 09:50 (Ref:3295107)   #2450
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Just one exhaust hole... it means the car will probably be fitted with a 4-in line turbocharged engine, and displacement will be 1.8-2.2 litres. Smaller engine means lower weight and more space in the chassis to place hybrid system. This choice is to reduce the weight of the car, to fit the battery package as a ballast, placing it in the best way to lower the centre of gravity of the car as much as possible.
I think this choice can be the right one, to have a very well balanced car saving weight as much as possible.
Petrol engine is lighter than diesel one, so Porsche could be further advantaged with a 4-in line in confront of Audi and maybe Toyota (assuming they will preserve their 3.4 V6 engine).
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