To Fuel or Not to Fuel - That is the Question

[Pingguest]

Here two historic examples showing why mid-race refuelling should be banned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gja_3YaqMNg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvZv_...watch_response

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

Here two historic examples showing why mid-race refuelling should be banned.

But don't you see! It's things like that which get people talking about F1!

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by Marbot

But don't you see! It's things like that which get people talking about F1!

I think it would be better to have people talking about an on-track battle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWA0sYlS-5k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3tXJm9tYGM

Or about a super qualifying lap or determination of a driver.

[Marbot]

Agreed.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

Here two historic examples showing why mid-race refuelling should be banned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gja_3YaqMNg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvZv_...watch_response

Actually, you've shown us why it SHOULDN'T be banned. Think of all the refuelling stops they've made since then, and those two are really the only two accidents of memory. NASCAR stockcars have to be refeulled, yet they hardly have any fires.

[Marbot]

This season alone has seen several mechanics being knocked or pulled to the ground in the pit lane.The number of near misses and 'what ifs' has been quite alarming!

[Dutton]

It wouldn't matter if there had been zero refueling related incidents since the reintroduction of refueling. The reality is that refueling endangers more people than not refueling. It really is an open and shut case in this sense.

The question is rather more about what the main risks are, and what degree of risk is acceptable. In this regard, I would say the main danger in the stops is the equipment used for refueling. If the driver moves when it is still attached, it is simply very risky for the pitcrew. NASCAR, for instance, doesn't reallly have problems in this way due to the methods they have for getting the fuel into the car (if the driver was to go early for some reason, there isn't this hulky great hose thing draped over people). The flame risk is not really such a problem these days: it is unlikely to happen at the worst of times, and, even if it does, the protections and systems in place mean the risk it actually poses, provided the safety procedures operate effectively in the event of an incident, which they seemingly always do, is not that massive.

I'd say the injury risk from all the equipment/cars-attached-to-equipment poses the far greater risk than that of spilt fuel.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Dutton

It wouldn't matter if there had been zero refueling related incidents since the reintroduction of refueling. The reality is that refueling endangers more people than not refueling. It really is an open and shut case in this sense.

I couldn't agree more,and yet it has been completely ignored as something that needs to be changed in todays FOTA-FIA meeting!

[Bononi]

Can I agree more with what you couldn't agree more, but even though it hasn't been perceived as one issue that is needed to be modified at the meeting between FOTA and FIA meeting, methinks.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Dutton

NASCAR, for instance, doesn't reallly have problems in this way due to the methods they have for getting the fuel into the car (if the driver was to go early for some reason, there isn't this hulky great hose thing draped over people).

Well, maybe they should rethink the way the cars are refuelled then.

[Dutton]

That is what I was trying to get at with my previous post.

I don't mind if refueling is kept or not, but I do think the process needs re-evaluated if it is to be kept.

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by Matt

Actually, you've shown us why it SHOULDN'T be banned. Think of all the refuelling stops they've made since then, and those two are really the only two accidents of memory.

I remember more of them.

[Matt]

I swear, these so called F1 "fans" are never happy. Just stop watching, if it bothers you THAT much.

[garcon]

It should not be beyond the combined technological wit of the F1 teams to manage to refuel cars without killing people.

Everybody complains bitterly enough already that too many F1 races are boring processions - can you imagine how dull they would be if we removed one of the few methods of mixing up the action?

We have to keep refuelling. Absolutely no question in my view.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by garcon

It should not be beyond the combined technological wit of the F1 teams to manage to refuel cars without killing people.

Since it re-introduction 14 years ago very little has changed with regard to the process of refuelling a Formula One car.I'm not so sure that F1 pit crews will be any safer next season,and isn't it the driver that's supposed to be taking the risks?

As for refuelling spicing up the racing.....well....I'm still waiting.

[Teretonga]

I do not think refuelling spices up the action and its a stupid approach anyway if that is the intent of refuelling.

I would rather see it go, but would accept a compromise to allow one refuelling stop per car per race....

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

I would rather see it go, but would accept a compromise to allow one refuelling stop per car per race....

I'd go with that,or have mandatory 15 second (+ or -) stops so that there is ample time to remove hoses,wheels and mechanics before the car moves off again.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Marbot

I'd go with that,or have mandatory 15 second (+ or -) stops so that there is ample time to remove hoses,wheels and mechanics before the car moves off again.

Mandatory time could work... But mitigate against an efficient team.
I would also like to see a lower limit on the number of people who could work on the car at any pit stop as per NASCAR and other forms of racing.
Say a maximum of six people 'over the line' at any stage...

That would also reduce the overcrowding we seem to get at pit stops with human bodies everywhere.

[Teretonga]

Just checked a photo of one of Alonso's stops in China...20 (yes 20) people are working on the car....
Massa had 20 people 'over the line' at one stop too.
Another car had 22....

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Mandatory time could work... But mitigate against an efficient team.

But it should stop a driver driving away with the fuel hose etc still attached.They should get "efficient" somewhere other than the pit lane.

[duke_toaster]

I'd add a rule that mandates that mandates two wheel guns and if need be the rear tyres can only be put on once the fuel flap is down.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

I'd add a rule that mandates that mandates two wheel guns and if need be the rear tyres can only be put on once the fuel flap is down.

I wouldn't want to be the rear jack guy. *Gets feeling of Deja vu*

[Teretonga]

If you regulated the number of people 'over the line' then under the current operations everything would take longer, there may be no need to mandate a specific time to allow the refuelling to take place because they'd still be putting the wheels on when all the fuel was in.....

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Marbot

I wouldn't want to be the rear jack guy. *Gets feeling of Deja vu*

Maybe the rear jackman should grow some balls and suck it up then. Pad him like a power ranger.