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Old 13 Sep 2012, 10:02 (Ref:3135264)   #16
Umai Naa
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Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Would simply putting the SS bodykit on the Commodore, the XR8 bodykit on the Falcon, and a Nismo bodykit on the Altima be enough to narrow the gap between racecar and road car?

Lets be real here, you couldn't buy an exact example of the race car from the showroom back in the Group A days, just as you can't now. So for me, that argument was always pointless. Even production race cars wouldn't pass a roadworthy in most states.
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Old 13 Sep 2012, 10:59 (Ref:3135293)   #17
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It was always my favourite time, some great Bathurst races under Group A, always interesting once Brockie stopped being allowed to win everything by writing his own rules...

It was Godzilla and the Jim Richards booing thing that killed it, wasn't it?
Yeah DQing 2 Fords and letting him swap cars

Wasn't that Bathurst win that killed it, was already dead by then. Costing way too much money. Skaife was quoted in an article in the last year or two saying to run those 2 GTR's they were spending more than they were to run HRT a couple of years ago. Costs just got too high for the manufacturers and they pulled out.
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Old 13 Sep 2012, 11:24 (Ref:3135308)   #18
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Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Fred Gibson had mentioned at one point that they were only spending the money because it was there to be spent. They could've done the same job with Winfield backing alone, such was the budget they had.
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Old 13 Sep 2012, 19:38 (Ref:3135513)   #19
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Fred Gibson had mentioned at one point that they were only spending the money because it was there to be spent. They could've done the same job with Winfield backing alone, such was the budget they had.
Ha, the good old days of tobacco sponsorship, eh?
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Old 13 Sep 2012, 21:15 (Ref:3135582)   #20
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Originally Posted by Umai Naa View Post
Would simply putting the SS bodykit on the Commodore, the XR8 bodykit on the Falcon, and a Nismo bodykit on the Altima be enough to narrow the gap between racecar and road car?

Lets be real here, you couldn't buy an exact example of the race car from the showroom back in the Group A days, just as you can't now. So for me, that argument was always pointless. Even production race cars wouldn't pass a roadworthy in most states.
Probably for the casual viewer that would be. Although, the casual viewer will then probably ask why these 'standard' cars are running around on the track.

I guess I just like the idea of cars racing with their own DNA again.
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Old 14 Sep 2012, 00:57 (Ref:3135670)   #21
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Ah, why go Group A when you could have Group 5...
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Old 14 Sep 2012, 01:04 (Ref:3135672)   #22
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Ah, why go Group A when you could have Group 5...
I googled it because i am way too young.

Not something we had in australia, at least i dont think so, as i said, way too young
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Old 14 Sep 2012, 04:07 (Ref:3135722)   #23
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all these cars racing that people couldnt identify with didnt help either.
I can certainly identify with a Commodiore that has had 4 inches cut out of it to make it fit a chassis that is the same as the so called Falcons and Nissans have to run. The very same chassis that no one except a V8 Supertaxi team can buy. The same one that bears no resemblance with the road going version from any of the 3 entrant manufacturers.
Group A had its' problems and I think with the right sort of tweaking could be made relevant and sustainable. Have a look around the local car parks and see which manufacturers are represented there.
make it 2wd, no homolgation specials, high homologation numbers, only models that have achieved the required number of sales of a particular model would be allowed to race in that country not cars that have achieved the sales figures somewhere else in the world, etc. Yep, I know that would eliminate my own cars under these rules but we're talking now or in the future.
Bring it on and we might get some interest in a race meeting for the racing and not just because of the after race concert as seems to be the case at times.
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Old 14 Sep 2012, 04:18 (Ref:3135727)   #24
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The point I was trying to make earlier is how close to a road car does it have to be, before you have to chop and change to make things fair/competitive, safe, or viable?

When you think about it, after 25 years (we could regard '87 as the turning point of Group A), we've ended up where we are now with V8SC, for the exact reasons I mentioned above.
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Old 14 Sep 2012, 06:55 (Ref:3135758)   #25
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racer69 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridracer69 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I grew up watching Group A so have a soft spot for it... however there certainly were flaws in the system.

The main ones, in my opinion, were the 'homologation special' rule with the short run of 500 cars, and the turbo equivalency factor was way too low... changing the tyre width rules in '88 didn't help either

It never bothered me watching Sierra's and Skyline's, as mentioned earlier you had to expect that with an international formula, plus although Holden was a little hampered by the regulations, they could still run near the front.... infact if you take out the GTRs, the VN Commodore's were every match for the Sierra's and M3's in 1991.

You'd be pushing it uphill to get a ruleset like that introduced anywhere in the world for a frontline touring car series these days though, everyone has gone too far down the 'spec' path to turn back.
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Old 14 Sep 2012, 13:15 (Ref:3135870)   #26
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I googled it because i am way too young.

Not something we had in australia, at least i dont think so, as i said, way too young
LOL. I'm a bit too young as well, although I've seen a few of them on the circuits in historic racing and suchlike and some film, too. 'Monsters' doesn't describe them sufficiently.
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Old 14 Sep 2012, 13:41 (Ref:3135880)   #27
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I think the next evolution in motorsport, will be the development of a spec-GroupA formula. Rules that are controlled (unlike gpA), but allow for a wider range of cars to compete in (like grpA). They'd have to roughly take the same time to do 100/200 kms (as opposed to 3.5 or 1000kms) to make it fair and to show the relative strength of each car/class. It will take a little time to develop the fairness, but it's better than cotf.
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Old 15 Sep 2012, 00:55 (Ref:3136127)   #28
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just watching v8 supercars latest instalment of 50 Awesome Bathurst Moments .

its 1984 the end of Group C. crowd was huge on pit straight, although there was less spectator viewing spots back then. (and no big screens)

But it made me wonder, as im too young to truly remember.

Why did we get rid of Group C, it seemed to have what the people wanted and with hindsight i would say group A was a backwards step.

have clear memories of holden fans mocking the ford fans at school regarding this
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Old 15 Sep 2012, 03:17 (Ref:3136143)   #29
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all these cars racing that people couldnt identify with didnt help either.
I agree- didn't get to a point where CH 7 were floating a "rebel series'
due to falling ratings?
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Old 15 Sep 2012, 03:27 (Ref:3136145)   #30
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Not something we had in australia, at least i dont think so, as i said, way too young
We sort of did have Group 5 in Australia. They competed in Sports Sedan racing

The likes of Alan Jones Porsche 935 or the JPS BMW 320 Turbo's were homologated Group 5 cars, and raced in the Sports Sedan/GT Championship

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Why did we get rid of Group C, it seemed to have what the people wanted and with hindsight i would say group A was a backwards step.
Because by 1983/84 the Group C rules had become a basket case, largely due to CAMS changing the rules every ten seconds to try and even the competition up.

For instance Mazda would get a concession (say the 13B), which would lead to Holden saying we need this to catch up, and Ford teams saying we need that, so they'd be granted, only for Mazda to say we need another thing to keep up now, while Nissan would say we need another turbo to keep up with that lot & have it granted....while BMW always got knocked back when asking for something. Group C had little future beyond 1984 anyway, only Nissan & Holden would have likely stuck round beyond then.

Group A was seen as a way to take all the arguing out of the teams hands (and off CAMS back) and leave it with the manufacturers and Paris

rules wise, there was little infighting until 1991/92 when CAMS were looking after it all again.

The best Group A years were the early days, 1986 and 1987, before the homologation specials started to rule.... 1990 rates a worthy mention though too.
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