Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Single Seater Racing > Formula One


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11 Jan 2022, 20:38 (Ref:4093340)   #106
Richard Casto
Subscriber
Veteran
 
Richard Casto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
United States
NC, USA
Posts: 4,377
Richard Casto is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard Casto is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard Casto is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard Casto is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard Casto is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard Casto is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard Casto is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard Casto is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard Casto is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard Casto is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard Casto is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Here are a few articles that talk to the points I call out above. Some old, some newer.


Late December of this past year interview with FIA chief technology officer Nikolas Tombazis. (my quote below translated from German to English via Google Translate)

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/...chef-tombazis/

Tombazis talks about adjusting rules mid-season as needed...
Quote:
Tombazis is confident that Formula 1 has learned from this experience: "The goals were correct. The basic measures too. The mistake was that the teams were given too much freedom. That is why the goals were missed in the end." For this reason, the 2022 rules are not cast in stone. "I expect adjustments over the course of the season if things don't work out as intended."
Old 2019 arcticle

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/fi...85798/4985798/

Tombazis talks about teams exposing loopholes to the FIA in advance of car design (note, this is from 2019 when teams would have been much earlier in design)...
Quote:
"The reason teams, depending on their attitude or whether they are risk-prone or not, will do that is because they have found some loophole, they know it is against the intention of the rule, and we have up until a certain point in time to adjust the rules and make corrections.

"They don't want to necessarily spend three months on something and have the carpet pulled under their feet and lose three months.

"So sometimes some teams discover [something] and before they start spending resource there they want to be sure that it won't be somehow banned or whatever."
Article from fall of last year (2022 cars should have been mostly set in stone with respect to mechanical and aero concepts at this point)...

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/96880...gest-fear.html

Pat Symonds calling out that the FIA will protect the goals of the new rules...
Quote:
The transparency between the FIA and the teams is also there to ensure that the teams don't get any nasty surprises. "The FIA can ban a development if they feel it is not in the spirit of the regulations," warns Symonds. In view of the budget cap, the FIA banning certain developments could have nasty consequences if teams have to go back to the drawing board.
Richard
Richard Casto is offline  
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one."
Quote
Old 11 Jan 2022, 20:52 (Ref:4093343)   #107
Akrapovic
Veteran
 
Akrapovic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Scotland
Posts: 10,252
Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith View Post
According to this BBC article: ''the FIA said it would be done (the inquiry) in time for 'any identified meaningful feedback and conclusions to be made before the beginning of the 2022 season'. ''

Make of that what you will. It just sounds a little vague.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59951382
The FIA has conducted a timely investigation into the FIAs application of the FIAs rule book during the FIA officiated event. The FIA concludes that the FIA has done nothing wrong and obeyed the FIA rule book. The FIA considers this matter closed.

Having people investigate themselves should be classified as corruption.
Akrapovic is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Jan 2022, 21:04 (Ref:4093344)   #108
Mike Harte
Subscriber
Veteran
 
Mike Harte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
United Kingdom
W. Yorkshire
Posts: 4,117
Mike Harte is going for a new world record!Mike Harte is going for a new world record!Mike Harte is going for a new world record!Mike Harte is going for a new world record!Mike Harte is going for a new world record!Mike Harte is going for a new world record!Mike Harte is going for a new world record!
Richard, for as long as I can remember, teams have often approached the technical arm of the FIA to present ideas that they have which they feel may be within both the rules and the spirit of them, and to get those ideas approved by the FIA in writing.

This has often resulted in other teams requesting clarification of those modifications/ideas when they discover them. One such being Mercedes' steering (was it last season?).

Sometimes the FIA gives the go-ahead, others they reject.
Mike Harte is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Jan 2022, 23:36 (Ref:4093362)   #109
Richard Casto
Subscriber
Veteran
 
Richard Casto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
United States
NC, USA
Posts: 4,377
Richard Casto is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard Casto is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard Casto is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard Casto is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard Casto is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard Casto is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard Casto is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard Casto is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard Casto is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard Casto is the undisputed Champion of the World!Richard Casto is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Harte View Post
Richard, for as long as I can remember, teams have often approached the technical arm of the FIA to present ideas that they have which they feel may be within both the rules and the spirit of them, and to get those ideas approved by the FIA in writing.

This has often resulted in other teams requesting clarification of those modifications/ideas when they discover them. One such being Mercedes' steering (was it last season?).

Sometimes the FIA gives the go-ahead, others they reject.
Yes. Sorry if I gave the illusion that is a new practice.

Richard
Richard Casto is offline  
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one."
Quote
Old 16 Jan 2022, 02:33 (Ref:4093936)   #110
wnut
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,987
wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!
Has anybody seen if anything has been done about Mercedes gaming the PU rules and the intent of the cost cap rules by gaming the system with replacement PUs?

It would seem that a 5 place penalty on the grid or worse on the Sprint race grid is wholly inadequate for the performance gain.

Is this loophole being closed?
wnut is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Jan 2022, 03:12 (Ref:4093939)   #111
Adam43
14th
1% Club
 
Adam43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
European Union
New Orleans
Posts: 37,915
Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
The FIA have confirmed that the rules are the same for each team. Also they have ratified that if you don’t take the grid penalty you are allowed a better chance to score points in the sprint.



Nice list of the changes to the PU for each driver:
https://www.f1-fansite.com/2021-f1-s...unit-elements/

Last edited by Adam43; 16 Jan 2022 at 03:19.
Adam43 is offline  
__________________
Always consider this might not be 100% serious.
Quote
Old 16 Jan 2022, 13:27 (Ref:4093993)   #112
bjohnsonsmith
Race Official
20KPINAL
 
bjohnsonsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
United States
London, England
Posts: 21,078
bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Looking at that table the majority drivers ended up using four ICEs, TCs and MGU-Hs. It would seem the FIA have underestimated how long of each of those elements will last, before they need replacing during such a long season. I think they might need to re-evaluate that.
bjohnsonsmith is offline  
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying."
Colin Chapman.
Quote
Old 16 Jan 2022, 22:38 (Ref:4094058)   #113
Teretonga
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,938
Teretonga is going for a new world record!Teretonga is going for a new world record!Teretonga is going for a new world record!Teretonga is going for a new world record!Teretonga is going for a new world record!Teretonga is going for a new world record!Teretonga is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnut View Post
Has anybody seen if anything has been done about Mercedes gaming the PU rules and the intent of the cost cap rules by gaming the system with replacement PUs?

It would seem that a 5 place penalty on the grid or worse on the Sprint race grid is wholly inadequate for the performance gain.

Is this loophole being closed?
Why is it a loophole?
What is wrong with it as it is?
What is the 21st century obsession with creating reasons to penalize and penalizing people when once upon a time in the not too distant past you could use as many engines as you liked.
Even one for practice, one for qualifying and one for the race.....
There is a budget allowance and some penalties for engine failures. Engine failures are usually mechanical, not driver mistakes, so why should a driver be penalized for something beyond his control?
Teretonga is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Jan 2022, 22:45 (Ref:4094059)   #114
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 15,137
S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!
I don’t see the point of the penalties for extra parts. It won’t stop people using more than the allocated amount. It’s frustrating seeing too many grids changed by these penalties. I can understand them trying to cut costs, but it doesn’t really work

I do hope the rules are changed in this regard. Most team do spend wisely anyway. And yes it is unfair the driver is penalised for these technicalities which he didn’t necessary choose to do
S griffin is offline  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Quote
Old 17 Jan 2022, 00:41 (Ref:4094073)   #115
wnut
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,987
wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!wnut has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teretonga View Post
Why is it a loophole?
What is wrong with it as it is?
What is the 21st century obsession with creating reasons to penalize and penalizing people when once upon a time in the not too distant past you could use as many engines as you liked.
Even one for practice, one for qualifying and one for the race.....
There is a budget allowance and some penalties for engine failures. Engine failures are usually mechanical, not driver mistakes, so why should a driver be penalized for something beyond his control?
It is a loophole because in a formula that is allegedly trying to cut costs, the stupendously expensive PUs introduced by the manufacturers, are outside the cost cap, and are now being changed by the manufacturer teams to gain a significant performance advantage over other teams who cannot afford to indulge in this luxury.

For my 2 cents worth, I think that the cost of the PUs should be limited to $100 000 dollars each, should be allocated to the teams by the FIA out of a stock held by the FIA, and anybody should be free to use as many as they like during the season - within the cost cap.
wnut is offline  
Quote
Old Yesterday, 16:06 (Ref:4094405)   #116
bjohnsonsmith
Race Official
20KPINAL
 
bjohnsonsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
United States
London, England
Posts: 21,078
bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!bjohnsonsmith is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Teams have still yet to vote on this season's sprint races, requiring 8 of the 10 teams to vote in favour of them but there is a stand-off over costs.


https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12...JLvPWQXXO3AEFo
bjohnsonsmith is offline  
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying."
Colin Chapman.
Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New rules. New manufacturers. The 2021 and beyond positivity thread! Simmi ACO Regulated Series 617 11 Jan 2022 15:10
[Tech Issue] New generation of Formula 1 2022 and beyond car will remain utilize the old roll-hoop Therius94 Formula One 14 2 Sep 2021 21:10
Who will drive #88 in 2022 & beyond? GTRMagic Australasian Touring Cars. 97 30 Aug 2021 22:49
[DTM] Technical regulations for 2011 and beyond FIRE WTCC & European Touring Car Series 198 21 Oct 2012 20:51
New FIA Seat and Side Impact Protection TWRv12 Racers Forum 10 20 Nov 2008 22:44


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:18.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.