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Old 10 Apr 2007, 02:33 (Ref:1887662)   #1
bil588
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Le Mans-style racing: almost the last bastion of innovation?

http://www.americanlemans.com/news/Article.aspx?ID=2811

"So I'm skeptical of what we see today, namely the final assault of the one-design philosophy on the top ranks of the sport. In Formula 1, the FIA's attempt to introduce stricter rules to cut costs and encourage green technologies at the same time exhibits some of the typical pitfalls of top-down government policy-making. Champ Car has officially gone down the 'spec' car route, and the IRL has done so unofficially. NASCAR's effort to update its technology with the Car of Tomorrow looks likely to introduce even greater technical uniformity.

Le Mans-style sports car racing has emerged as almost the last bastion of innovation, with the success of Audi's turbo diesel in last year's 24 Hours drawing Peugeot back to Le Mans, and several carmakers exploring hybrid-powered projects. It's no accident that this type of racing has attracted more new factory teams than any other over the last couple of seasons."
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Old 10 Apr 2007, 19:56 (Ref:1888390)   #2
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Old 10 Apr 2007, 20:12 (Ref:1888418)   #3
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What I don't get is how Diesel is marketed as a way forward. It's different from petrol, but still uses the very same oil as a basis. There need to be some major rule changes to make electro-hybrid engined cars a viable optioned. Zytek for one would really like to build a hybrid car, but they don't think it will be anywhere near competitive and the ACO has refused to lean to their direction on several occasions now. Building a diesel racing might be an innovation, but by no means the revolution some people want you to believe it is.
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Old 10 Apr 2007, 21:04 (Ref:1888499)   #4
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I'd put money on the Acura/Honda P1 being some form of hybrid.

The ACO have always said they will embrace new ideas and technology, a little different to other formulas were innovation is legislated out.
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Old 10 Apr 2007, 21:51 (Ref:1888547)   #5
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Originally Posted by JAG
The ACO have always said they will embrace new ideas and technology, a little different to other formulas were innovation is legislated out.
I think the Zytek people will be the first to disagree with that statement.
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Old 10 Apr 2007, 21:53 (Ref:1888551)   #6
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Seems to me I rember ( showing my age ) that their was an old indy car, Sponsored by STP, ( Andy Granetilli ) that ran as a turbine engine. It was so different that it was banned a few years latter.

There are plenty or solor electric hybrid car races, they just dont go faster then 40 mph ( down hill with a strong tail wind)

Diesel engines are a great addition to motorsports, just allow the petrol cars to have the same power abitlites.
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Old 10 Apr 2007, 23:03 (Ref:1888611)   #7
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If increased use of diesel versus gasoline occurs though, with the better mileage of deisel, it could make a dent in consumption, which is certainly a step in the right direction.
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Old 10 Apr 2007, 23:33 (Ref:1888629)   #8
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Originally Posted by WouterM
I think the Zytek people will be the first to disagree with that statement.
The Zytek people don't have the money to back up their ambitions.

We saw what Taurus did with a diesel, then Audi gave it their best shot.

Same regs, but one was a back marker, one a dominent race winner.

Last edited by JAG; 10 Apr 2007 at 23:35.
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Old 11 Apr 2007, 04:04 (Ref:1888704)   #9
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Didn't a team run at Le Mans a few years ago with a beetroot based fuel ???? Do the ACo still encourage this sort of activity
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Old 11 Apr 2007, 07:46 (Ref:1888769)   #10
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Originally Posted by bil588
[COLOR=black

Le Mans-style sports car racing has emerged as almost the last bastion of innovation, with the success of Audi's turbo diesel in last year's 24 Hours drawing Peugeot back to Le Mans, and several carmakers exploring hybrid-powered projects. It's no accident that this type of racing has attracted more new factory teams than any other over the last couple of seasons."[/COLOR]
You are correct, when the ACO boys wrote the rules, they made sure the rules were tilted in favour of certain concerns, so said same concerns would come and play.

.The ACO is little different fromt the others, the diesel is what it is ONLY, because new contrived rules were written to make it competitive, or actually give it an edge.
It is worse than dummying all down to the lowest common denominator, it is lowering all except the chosen ones, down to less than a common denominator.

The variety in the GT classses is nice, but then the FIA is heads and tails better than the ACO, at their own ballgame; although give the FIA some time , they can grab defeat from the jaws of victory in a heartbeat, but until then they got their act together.

It seems the market for rose colored glasses is booming.
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Old 11 Apr 2007, 08:03 (Ref:1888788)   #11
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Originally Posted by Trev Campbell
Didn't a team run at Le Mans a few years ago with a beetroot based fuel ???? Do the ACo still encourage this sort of activity
Ethanol fuels have been used.
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Old 11 Apr 2007, 15:40 (Ref:1889084)   #12
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Old 11 Apr 2007, 16:02 (Ref:1889092)   #13
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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
It seems the market for rose colored glasses is booming.
Indeed among spectators! I often wonder how many forum posters - particularly those on some F1 forums - go to club or national level motorsport in their country. I imagine not many do, thus they're quite in the dark about a lot of innovation, variety, engineering and close racing that occurs in those series and classes.

Which leads to another point. Innovation doesn't necessarily have to have sound engineering principles or a lap time advantage (although both would help), it merely has to be different and new. By this definition you can find it in any class.
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Old 11 Apr 2007, 21:59 (Ref:1889341)   #14
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The diesel engine was orginally designed to run on vegetable oil. I think peanut oil specifically. Ethanol is a great powersource. Panoz had a hybrid several years ago. I've often thought a new Group C style formula would be a great way to liberate the rules and to see some new stuff out there.

Also. The turbine powered indy car. The "whoosh car" was banned because it didn't make the proper race car noise (sounds familiar huh?). Of course that wasn't the official reason, but it's the real reason.
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Old 12 Apr 2007, 02:01 (Ref:1889417)   #15
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Bio diesel is 4 times more energy productive than bio ethanol from corn. So diesel wins out once again here.
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