[Driver] Senna in at Renault?

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

although we really have no idea what kinds of contracts these guy sign...one of the many mysteries of F1.

Exactly... you've contradicted your own point. Sports contracts are about more than just financial compensation.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Exactly... you've contradicted your own point. Sports contracts are about more than just financial compensation.

well just an admission that F1 contracts can be different than other sports contracts which either indicates F1 is not a sport or at least just very confusing.

personally cant think of any professional athlete who has sued for being benched. not getting paid...well that is something else.

[strider]

Here's the latest up date from Spa, courtesy of James Allen.

It looks as though Grosjean is out of the picture and that after Monza everything hinges on Heidfeld's court case in three weeks' time.

At least Bruno gets to race on two of the best circuits on the calendar.

This was his comment yesterday: " For a driver, Senna is a very good communicator and an effective operator in social and business situations." Useful right now.

[Peter Cammish]

Having Spent 35 years years following F1 the development with Senna is very dispiriting, I have zero knowledge of him and suspect he is like many of the wealthy young guys who populate the paddock a good driver who has been well coached and will make a reasonable transition, the problem is that in an increasingly meritocratic world Motorsport with its myraid sons of and now nephew of ex drivers looks increasingly out of touch. If one considers Premier League Football except for the few how many are sons of ex Top Level players, only in Motorsport does talent seem to permeate through the gene pool of past participants to any great degree, the public are not stupid which is why the sport has little resonance with young People and why the older people like me who loved the sport no longer really care. and also why young drivers find it incredibly hard to generate sponsorship as everybody they approach things they are already rich. As For Renault the Genni Capital thing is populated by any number of wealthy young guys and in truth without an upturn in the sponsorship market I wouldnt bet on Grosjean making it in, I would go for Senna and Petrov in 012 and then perhaps the Heir to a french supermarket or do it yourself chain for 014. My understanding from what I have read is that no Renault Money is actually in Renault GP and I suspect that Renault will have the name removed in due course and only allow in terms of engine supply.

[strider]

Originally Posted by Peter Cammish

Having Spent 35 years years following F1 the development with Senna is very dispiriting, I have zero knowledge of him and suspect he is like many of the wealthy young guys who populate the paddock a good driver who has been well coached and will make a reasonable transition, the problem is that in an increasingly meritocratic world Motorsport with its myraid sons of and now nephew of ex drivers looks increasingly out of touch. If one considers Premier League Football except for the few how many are sons of ex Top Level players, only in Motorsport does talent seem to permeate through the gene pool of past participants to any great degree, the public are not stupid which is why the sport has little resonance with young People and why the older people like me who loved the sport no longer really care. and also why young drivers find it incredibly hard to generate sponsorship as everybody they approach things they are already rich. As For Renault the Genni Capital thing is populated by any number of wealthy young guys and in truth without an upturn in the sponsorship market I wouldnt bet on Grosjean making it in, I would go for Senna and Petrov in 012 and then perhaps the Heir to a french supermarket or do it yourself chain for 014. My understanding from what I have read is that no Renault Money is actually in Renault GP and I suspect that Renault will have the name removed in due course and only allow in terms of engine supply.

That might be an interesting post, except the words I have highlighted undermine it completely.

[Bononi]

I wonder who is the heir of a french supermarket...

[peebee2]

Yann Cunha (Carrefour) currently in British F3

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Yann Cunha (Carrefour) currently in British F3

Really ?

[chunterer]

My tuppence worth is that on one hand i'm glad Bruno's getting a drive, I think he's quick enougn to be on the grid, but I also think that it maybe the owners giving him a chance to impress other team bosses (like Toyota did with Kobayashi) because they may not be on the grid next year....

Fel sorry for Nick, he's been treated like something you wouldn't say to your wife, but him kicking up a stink is all a bit pointless at the end iof the day, his F1 career was already over before he got drafted in for Kubica, but on the other hand he showed that on a clear weekend when he qualified without hassle he blew Petrov away just as Kubica had before him!

If Senna is bringing money why the heck didn't they bench Vitaly, who's done sod all the last few races and just keep Nick on becuase he's far more likely to get points.

Also hope Grosjean does get a race or two before the end of the season.

[TF110]

What if Senna beats Smirnoff... err rather Petrov? There's a dilemma!

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Renault should knock it on the head and become an engine supplier..

RB is not not coming back IMHO..

RB? RK?

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Fel sorry for Nick, he's been treated like something you wouldn't say to your wife, but him kicking up a stink is all a bit pointless at the end iof the day, his F1 career was already over before he got drafted in for Kubica, but on the other hand he showed that on a clear weekend when he qualified without hassle he blew Petrov away just as Kubica had before him!

So if Mr Heidfeld is out of a gig in F1, he owes it to his bank account to go out kicking and screaming in order to fill that bank account a little more. Presuming Genii can afford it...

[Sodemo]

As much as Heidfeld may have a valid contract, is it just me who thinks he should just take the hit and then settle for compensation out of court? If they have taken this decision, they obviously don't want him in the car, so why drag it out? What is the best possible outcome of this? Heidfield wins the case, then gets to take part in a few races with a team who don't want him there and with bad blood aplenty? I am not validating Renault's actions, simply just saying that you have to play the game.

Any team Heidfeld drives for from now on will look at what happens here and will take note, by fighting this it may cause him more harm than he realises.

[herowassenna]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Given the current testing restrictions in F1, this isn't the smartest move by Renault. Irrespective of how bad Nick Heidfeld has performed in recent races, Senna has no hope of getting close to that, let alone emulating it. This is no reflection on either driver's ability, but purely based on the respective seat time that each has had. Senna himself has admitted as much a few moments ago. I can understand the revolving door at HRT last season, where funding dictated who drove the car and when, however this is not the situation at Renault.

I have never made any secret of opinion regarding Senna's ability. As a few have said, he's never done anything to suggest he deserves a F1 chance other than his chosen surname.

I remember J. Villeneuve competing in Italian F3 and in Japan before racing in Indycars then F1, and yet despite winning he is ridiculed now as a lucky driver, someone who speaks his mind too much...

Di Resta has come into F1 this season and has been embarrassing Sutil with his performances all season. Forget seat time, skill and hunger define a driver.

Vettel, Alonso, Hamilton and others through out F1 history have come in and proved their ability irrespective of what they drove and against who.

Heidfeld's career was effectively finished by Mclaren in 2001, they chose Raikkonen over their protege Heidfeld, because they knew Nick's abilities and felt that Raikkonen's had more overall potential.

If my choice were to replace Heidfeld or Petrov, well... Petrov brings money and is practically on a par with a man that's competed in 170 GP's.

I wonder what his Uncle would have been advising Bruno, because however much he loved his family, i doubt he would have suffered any feelings of nepotism.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Any team Heidfeld drives for from now on will look at what happens here and will take note, by fighting this it may cause him more harm than he realises.

Perhaps more to the point. Anyone thinking of, or currently driving for Renault/Lotus/Genii, may want to take a look at how they're treating Heidfeld!

And anything silly that Bruno does will not look good in some quarters.

[bella]

Originally Posted by herowassenna

I wonder what his Uncle would have been advising Bruno, because however much he loved his family, i doubt he would have suffered any feelings of nepotism.

isn't he quoted as saying something along the lines of "if you think i'm good you should see my nephew"?

this nonsense about him choosing his mothers surname rather than his fathers comes out every time. his attitude is right - he's A senna but he's not THE senna. shame nobody else takes the time to listen to what he has to say about his choice, and seem far more determined to make up their mind on why.

perhaps latin americans can shed some light on whether it's just as common for someone to take their mothers name as it is their fathers?

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Perhaps more to the point. Anyone thinking of, or currently driving for Renault/Lotus/Genii, may want to take a look at how they're treating Heidfeld!

And anything silly that Bruno does will not look good in some quarters.

I think this is an act of *******ry on the part of Genii Renault, and I hope that Heidfeld sticks them to the contract he signed and gets every last penny he is entitled to out of the contract and the breach.

Heidfeld's lack of performance it would seem is more to do with lack of development than Heidfeld's lack of talent. I hope this also comes out in the legal wranglings.

Senna has done nothing to this point, so we will see how much merit is in his selection given that his ranking is about 248 he must be in on pure merit, musn't he?

[strider]

Originally Posted by bella

isn't he quoted as saying something along the lines of "if you think i'm good you should see my nephew"?

this nonsense about him choosing his mothers surname rather than his fathers comes out every time. his attitude is right - he's A senna but he's not THE senna. shame nobody else takes the time to listen to what he has to say about his choice, and seem far more determined to make up their mind on why.

perhaps latin americans can shed some light on whether it's just as common for someone to take their mothers name as it is their fathers?

Common sense at last, but then I would expect nothing less.

Ayrton Senna was Ayrton Senna da Silva when he raced in FFord and FFord 2000. From Wiki: "This name uses Portuguese naming customs. The first or maternal family name is Senna and the second or paternal family name is Silva."

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by bella

...
perhaps latin americans can shed some light on whether it's just as common for someone to take their mothers name as it is their fathers?

Just an observation, brazilians are not latin-americans, they are ahn... brazilians, or at least, south-americans !

As for the question, it's not common at all. The opposite is common and properly used. Usually the middle name is from the mother and the last from the father, and people eventually suppress the middle name as a public person.

Like Gisele Bundchen for example.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

RB? RK?

Sorry GTR I meant Robert Kubica..

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Sorry GTR I meant Robert Kubica..

No worries... was wondering if Rubens Barrichello may have made a switch

Actually its not a bad idea... alongside Mr Senna perhaps? Team Brazil!

[JeremySmith]

The whole thing is a little sad for me...

Bruno Senna is a lovely chap, I see why he has taken the opportunity to drive although I do not believe in that car it means very much..Nick is not everyone's favourite, but he is still very quick..

Renault is broken and all the kings horses and all the kings men..

Vitaly Petrov is just getting on with the job and a pretty fine job he is doing..

[flor]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Perhaps more to the point. Anyone thinking of, or currently driving for Renault/Lotus/Genii, may want to take a look at how they're treating Heidfeld!

That's a good point, "Renault" looks somewhat unprofessional this season. Like the mobbing thing Eddie Jordan pointed out. They're also constantly moving backwards since the start of the season.

[strider]

Originally Posted by flor

They're also constantly moving backwards since the start of the season.

And that's what Heidfeld was hired to avoid. QED.

[flor]

Originally Posted by strider

And that's what Heidfeld was hired to avoid. QED.

That is of course true, but he doesn't build the car including the subpar and unreliable exhaust, didn't close the wind tunnel and didn't blow up the car...