STEWARDS REPORT RE PENSKE ENGINE

[Forda]

Originally Posted by Jamolad

Not kidding, and who said DJRTP are sceptical of the findings?

With the 'debriss' BS they accepted all findings and pleaded guilty to unsporting conduct.

They paid $150k and 300 points for running a generally accepted 20 second SC buffer out to 47 seconds.

Originally Posted by Jamolad

The tech breach was there and Dick himself said it should not have happened.

"The Bathurst stuff shouldn’t have happened and we’ve paid the price,’’ Johnson said.

A rooted engine being checked - that is what shouldn't have happened.

They also found water in the oil - surprised they didn't hand out a penalty for that as well.

Originally Posted by Jamolad

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Supercars is the game, and the prizes are the Championship, Bathurst and the Teams' Championship.

DJRTP are playing, and have won 2 out of 3 of those prizes so far this year.

[JAFA851]

I sure Forda is a DJRTP employee, going by his unwaivering denial they have done any wrong, even in the face of the teams' own admission of guilt, and lack of appeals.

[Jamolad]

Originally Posted by Forda

...A rooted engine being checked - that is what shouldn't have happened.

You cut out the bit where Dick said, "We made a mistake, we’ve paid the penalty.’’???

Interesting.

Originally Posted by JAFA851

I sure Forda is a DJRTP employee, going by his unwaivering denial they have done any wrong, even in the face of the teams' own admission of guilt, and lack of appeals.

Before that he was the Iraq Information Minister.

[Forda]

The main thing DJRTP have done "wrong" here is break the once-perpetual Holden/888 cycle.

Seems to make people froth at the mouth, some more than others.

Including Ryan Walkinshaw, who has now been exposed for sending hate messages to Scotty via text.

[Jamolad]

Originally Posted by Forda

The main thing DJRTP have done "wrong" here is break the once-perpetual Holden/888 cycle.

+ unsporting conduct

+ tech breach

They're both "wrong" too aren't they?

What Ryan W did is unacceptable.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Forda

Seems to make people froth at the mouth, some more than others.

Frothing at the mouth, have a look in the mirror. It is interesting when people get into protracted arguments such as this with nothing more than fandom zeal and no true knowledge of what makes a racing car tick. Everyone but you can see what happened, why is that? You remind me of a politician that will talk for a week on anything bar the facts of the matter.

[Forda]

Originally Posted by Casper

Frothing at the mouth, have a look in the mirror.

You're simply proving the point with your rant.

Originally Posted by Casper

It is interesting when people get into protracted arguments such as this with nothing more than fandom zeal and no true knowledge of what makes a racing car tick.

Being able to single-handedly build a Supercar isn't a prerequisite for following the sport.

Originally Posted by Casper

Everyone but you can see what happened, why is that?

There are two sides to every story, and only one is getting any real media space.
No one has officially determined why, and released details of what caused, the Q engine to have tolerance variances on 3 of it's 16 valves.

Originally Posted by Casper

You remind me of a politician that will talk for a week on anything bar the facts of the matter.

And you remind me of one of those old car weirdos who like to rattle on about the days of yore.

[banksie]

Originally Posted by Forda

They paid $150k and 300 points for running a generally accepted 20 second SC buffer out to 47 seconds.

No, it was a 1 second gap that went to 47 seconds.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Jamolad

+ unsporting conduct

+ tech breach

They're both "wrong" too aren't they?

What Ryan W did is unacceptable.

And cheating by lobbying for unjustified parity advantages........oh wait.......:

[FAS33]

Stop crying. Everyone cheats

[V12muscleman]

Originally Posted by Forda

The main thing DJRTP have done "wrong" here is break the once-perpetual Holden/888 cycle.

Seems to make people froth at the mouth, some more than others.

Including Ryan Walkinshaw, who has now been exposed for sending hate messages to Scotty via text.

Scott has been abusing team owners, team principals and even the entire paddock calling them ‘toxic’’ for several months now.

Hardly surprising someone has finally had a go at him to his face, if it’s even true. As for calling his team cheats, I think that is something that is now well and truly considered fact ever since bathurst...

[JAFA851]

Bathurst just confirmed beyond all reasonable doubt they are cheats. After the drop-gear incident and the rear wing angle incident, everyone has been looking at them sideways ever since then. It was a matter of when they got caught, not if. Penske also has a long track record of cheating in the US, so not sure why some people would think he would operate differently in Australia?

[Forda]

Originally Posted by banksie

No, it was a 1 second gap that went to 47 seconds.

A 20 second SC buffer is considered okay, wink-wink.
888 have proved that to be the case in the past.
The Dude reckoned getting away with that was somewhat reasonable.

But running that out a further 27 seconds = $250k / 300 points.

Originally Posted by V12muscleman

Scott has been abusing team owners, team principals and even the entire paddock calling them ‘toxic’’ for several months now.

The "toxic" comments have only been said recently.

If you want to substantiate this claim though, then please provide links - anything from prior to this month will do.

Originally Posted by V12muscleman

Hardly surprising someone has finally had a go at him to his face, if it’s even true.

But Ryan didn't "go at him to his face", he sent underhanded text messages instead.

Pretty disgraceful behaviour, even more so when it comes directly from a team owner.

But possibly born out of spite - Scotty turned down an offer to join WAU a few years back. Obviously he didn't have rocks in his head.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by V12muscleman

Scott has been abusing team owners, team principals and even the entire paddock calling them ‘toxic’’ for several months now.

Hardly surprising someone has finally had a go at him to his face, if it’s even true. As for calling his team cheats, I think that is something that is now well and truly considered fact ever since bathurst...

Good on Scotty for calling pitlane toxic that is exactly what it is, all the nuffies on here whinging about DJR/TP can suck it up!

[V12muscleman]

Originally Posted by Forda

A 20 second SC buffer is considered okay, wink-wink.
888 have proved that to be the case in the past.
The Dude reckoned getting away with that was somewhat reasonable.

But running that out a further 27 seconds = $250k / 300 points.



The "toxic" comments have only been said recently.

If you want to substantiate this claim though, then please provide links - anything from prior to this month will do.



But Ryan didn't "go at him to his face", he sent underhanded text messages instead.

Pretty disgraceful behaviour, even more so when it comes directly from a team owner.

But possibly born out of spite - Scotty turned down an offer to join WAU a few years back. Obviously he didn't have rocks in his head.

There’s a common thread here though, we have seen many team owners, team principals, drivers and others be critical of Scott recently.

Almost as if he is losing friends up and down pitlane due to his behaviour.

Also from who I have asked in pitlane the story is that RW said something along the lines of them pitlane is toxic towards you guys because of your team’s cheating’. I also hear he was by far not the only person in pitlane who took great and understandable offence to Scott public insult of his peers.

I actually think that’s a fair thing to call someone up on. Scott brought it upon himself.

[banksie]

Originally Posted by Forda

A 20 second SC buffer is considered okay, wink-wink.
888 have proved that to be the case in the past.
The Dude reckoned getting away with that was somewhat reasonable.

But running that out a further 27 seconds = $250k / 300 points.

Stop bending the facts to suit. Regardless of what happened previous, at Bathurst in 2019 the gap went from 1 second to 47 seconds.
Personally, I think DJRTP were lucky to get away with the penalty they did.

Originally Posted by Forda

But Ryan didn't "go at him to his face", he sent underhanded text messages instead.

Pretty disgraceful behaviour, even more so when it comes directly from a team owner.

I haven't seen this, have a link to share?

[Forda]

Originally Posted by V12muscleman

There’s a common thread here though, we have seen many team owners, team principals, drivers and others be critical of Scott recently.

Almost as if he is losing friends up and down pitlane due to his behaviour.

Also from who I have asked in pitlane the story is that RW said something along the lines of them pitlane is toxic towards you guys because of your team’s cheating’. I also hear he was by far not the only person in pitlane who took great and understandable offence to Scott public insult of his peers.

I actually think that’s a fair thing to call someone up on. Scott brought it upon himself.

Your story is inconsistent.

Scotty called pit lane 'toxic' only recently, and not "for several months now" as you originally stated.

And calling them 'toxic' seems to have occurred after people like Ryan Walkinshaw insulted him, due to a minute tolerance issue found in Car 17's engine, which was stuffed.

Scotty didn't cheat; he didn't build the engine, it's not his responsibility to check for component tolerance variations which are smaller than the width of a human hair.

There's some lowlifes out there, and in this case, some have ulterior motives.

[V12muscleman]

Originally Posted by Forda

Your story is inconsistent.

Scotty called pit lane 'toxic' only recently, and not "for several months now" as you originally stated.

And calling them 'toxic' seems to have occurred after people like Ryan Walkinshaw insulted him, due to a minute tolerance issue found in Car 17's engine, which was stuffed.

Scotty didn't cheat; he didn't build the engine, it's not his responsibility to check for component tolerance variations which are smaller than the width of a human hair.

There's some lowlifes out there, and in this case, some have ulterior motives.

I never said the toxic thing was for months, I said he has been known to have been insulting various people in Supercars for months. Apologies as that wasn’t clear but can see how you inferred that from my original post.

As for the time of the alleged message exchange between RW and SM that was a few days after Sandown from what I gather. But who knows.

I suspect there’s a lot to be said for most people in Supercars all getting along well with one another, including RW, and only one driver who seems to consistently drive a wedge between people, SM. Just saying.

Just to be clear I like SM and don’t fall into the Holden vs Ford crap, but I also like to tell it like it is. I know a lot of people in Supercars who have told me they were deeply insulted by SM calling them all toxic.

[V12muscleman]

Originally Posted by banksie

Stop bending the facts to suit. Regardless of what happened previous, at Bathurst in 2019 the gap went from 1 second to 47 seconds.
Personally, I think DJRTP were lucky to get away with the penalty they did.


I haven't seen this, have a link to share?

No link, it’s a claim made by Steven Johnson on his podcast who from what I’ve heard has over exaggerated the gravity of the message exchange whilst also ignoring what Scott may have been saying to RW. Remember there are generally two Sides to every story...

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Forda

You're simply proving the point with your rant.



Being able to single-handedly build a Supercar isn't a prerequisite for following the sport.



There are two sides to every story, and only one is getting any real media space.
No one has officially determined why, and released details of what caused, the Q engine to have tolerance variances on 3 of it's 16 valves.



And you remind me of one of those old car weirdos who like to rattle on about the days of yore.

What rant? Please supply link to rant, this sounds like someone who does not have a logical and clear explanation of what sheets of paper have got to do with camshaft lift tolerances. We still haven't got to the bottom of that yet so please supply the required information I requested and put all our minds at rest so engine builders can take note and use that allowance.

[craig1]

Better still, the engine builders can then apply the "new" tolerances to an odd number of valves to do nothing to enhance their performance.
Why would you stop there?
How about we switch it up and build engines with various infinite different spec of clearance throughout the engine just so we have some rubbish to trawl through.

[Mixer]

It's interesting to note comments by Supercars engine builders that a shagged engine with worn valve train will basically never measure lift over, always under. So I wonder how many of the measurements were over when the engine was built.

And Supercars engines are sealed by certified engine builder, they are never measured by Supercars at that point.

[gravin]

Originally Posted by Mixer

It's interesting to note comments by Supercars engine builders that a shagged engine with worn valve train will basically never measure lift over, always under. So I wonder how many of the measurements were over when the engine was built.

And Supercars engines are sealed by certified engine builder, they are never measured by Supercars at that point.

The Q engine has been opened and measured before by SC though hasn't it?

[Mixer]

Nope. Only after.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Mixer

It's interesting to note comments by Supercars engine builders that a shagged engine with worn valve train will basically never measure lift over, always under. So I wonder how many of the measurements were over when the engine was built.

And Supercars engines are sealed by certified engine builder, they are never measured by Supercars at that point.

I wonder what they actually measure, the lift at the valve head or the lift measured at the camshaft lobe. The latter is the normal thing to do but the former gives the actual camshaft lift measurement at the valve head. Camshaft lift is used to degree the camshaft which is a fancy name for splitting the lift each side of TDC. Splitting the lift retarded or advanced either side of TDC has advantages depending on the track configuration, Bathurst and Winton would ideally have the camshaft timed to do different things if the regs allow splitting the overlap each side of TDC.