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Old 23 Mar 2004, 23:18 (Ref:917207)   #26
grumpy1
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grumpy1 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Renualt don't want Ralf.The only one's who want Ralf are Toyota but Ralf his holding out because Toyota are not all they are cracked up to be this year.

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Last edited by grumpy1; 23 Mar 2004 at 23:18.
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Old 24 Mar 2004, 00:05 (Ref:917242)   #27
DieRitter
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I also think the same... i was just looking at different scenarios.

We all know that Flavio is a smart man and I don't see him loosing Mark without a very good compensation. Some people would say that Ralf is far from being a good compensation... and I could agree in some points.

Although I'm German, I'm not biased.

Last edited by DieRitter; 24 Mar 2004 at 00:08.
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Old 24 Mar 2004, 06:58 (Ref:917456)   #28
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Interesting grumpy.
I was just thinking today...it's soooo obvious that ralf wants to stay and will not want to go to toyota that frank could hold up negotiations for MONTHS and still have him dangling.
Now wouldn't that be funny
...and the only seat left would be jordan,ROTFL
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Old 24 Mar 2004, 08:20 (Ref:917527)   #29
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Gt_R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGt_R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Would anybody tell me they will react differently if they were in Ralf's shoes? What's wrong with a guy fighting for the best seat AND also want a better pay?

That's the problem with negotiation isn't it? Ralf wants a better pay just like every other driver or human being in fact, Williams want the best value for money just like any business..and it's just a normal process where they would end on a compromise, favouring the guy who needs the other less.
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Old 24 Mar 2004, 08:58 (Ref:917568)   #30
Amaroo Park
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Williams will save a fourtune doing this, well done Frank your money saving schemes will work well
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Old 24 Mar 2004, 10:42 (Ref:917670)   #31
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Please Get rid of Ralf, he belongs in a second rate team to complement his second rate skills. BMW gets Ralf and Honda gets Sato and the sport suffers.
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Old 24 Mar 2004, 10:51 (Ref:917680)   #32
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climb should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridclimb should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally posted by Super Tourer
You can read this situation like a book.

Chapter One.
Ralf and WW believe that RS is indespensable to Williams and will obviously meet their demands. RS takes great offence at Sir FW factoring his pay downwards when Ralf is racking it upwards.

Chapter Two
Ralf and WW not being interested in the F1 past don't know Sir FW's 'form' in driver negotiations.....

Chapter Three
WW runs around the paddock and knocks on the door of Toyota, purveyors of the biggest cheques in F1. The link is made....

Chapter Four
Mario Thiessen says that having a German driver in the team is not essential to BMW.....

Chapter Five
PANIC at WW's office, rushes out a story (allegedly) that Ralf signing for Renault is a mere 'formality'

Chapter Six
Flav says 'Ralf who' - more panic from WW. Sir FW's cards stacking up very nicely.

Chapter Seven
Sir FW eyes up the paddock and sends out the odd favourable comment in Mark W and Jenson's direction, plus a test is mentioned for Scott Dixon.

Chapter Eight
WW and Ralf have seen Toyota in action - me thinks Ralf is not keen on a long haul to get them on the right road - more panic, meantime Jenson and Mark W are doing very nicely....

Chapter Nine
Ralf and WW may be willing to negotiate down after all, reckoning that their 7 of hearts and 3 of clubs is not going top beat Sir FW's 2 Aces after all. Pay, all of a sudden, is not an issue.

Looks like they are running out of decent cards in the poker game....

Funny that.
Ditto ST, your book seems to me a perfect portrait of the situation.
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Old 24 Mar 2004, 11:36 (Ref:917711)   #33
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Originally posted by Gt_R
Would anybody tell me they will react differently if they were in Ralf's shoes? What's wrong with a guy fighting for the best seat AND also want a better pay?

You are correct Gt_R. The difference is, a driver has to at least perform to the standards the team expect. When he has been losing out to his team-mate for the last 2 seasons, and that looks likely to continue this season, why should his current team pay him his demands?

IF he had comfortably been beating his team-mate, then he would have a leg to stand on.
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Old 24 Mar 2004, 11:57 (Ref:917731)   #34
fog_shadow
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Gt_R,
whats wrong with us having a poke at a driver who drives like a sissy and expects to be paid like a prima donna??

sure if half can get a better salary he should go for it, good for him.

all this just proves that half is an ass. he needs the carrot and stick approach.
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Old 24 Mar 2004, 12:23 (Ref:917751)   #35
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BootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridBootsOntheSide should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Hopefully this new arrangement can motivate Ralf. But really, the great drivers aren't motivated by money. Mansell took a pay cut to return to Williams in 1991. The fact that Ferrari paid Michael more than Benetton for 1996 is coincidental in my view - he relished a new challenge. Ra;f hasn't showed himself to be anything more than a mercenary - and one whose driving is tempramental, flair-free and often riddled with mistakes.
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Old 24 Mar 2004, 14:03 (Ref:917949)   #36
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Originally posted by colinbond
Williams will save a fourtune doing this, well done Frank your money saving schemes will work well
Especially considering once Webber gets there he won't stand a chance at consistent podiums. I wonder if that's why Sir Frank on extended the contract for only a year? I mean to see where he compares to the new comer?

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Old 24 Mar 2004, 14:04 (Ref:917951)   #37
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dbl post sorry.

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Old 24 Mar 2004, 23:39 (Ref:918554)   #38
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I have long thought that most drivers should be on something like a base salary and "commission" or "bonus" pay per event for the bigger money. I find this to be especially important for drivers who are inconsistant - like Ralf.
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Old 25 Mar 2004, 03:23 (Ref:918688)   #39
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So....Ralf would have (theorectically) got paid $0 for Malaysia seeing as he DNF'ed??
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Old 25 Mar 2004, 03:55 (Ref:918699)   #40
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0$ over and above his base salary, which is not likely to be as much as Juans' current rate, I suspect.
Ralf sure painted himself into a corner with this one, with help from Willi, of course. Have you ever noticed that whenever there's a TV shot of Willi on race weekend, he's hangin' in the Ferrari pit? Can't blame him, really. It's like blue collar versus the upper crust. Or maybe Frank and Patrick won't allow him in the garage?
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