2 Aussie Drivers in All Time Top 20

[racer69]

Originally Posted by Wrighty05

Thank you, well said. I reckon Brock came 2nd at Spa in '77, could stand corrected though. He was quicker than Gerry Marshall who was also on the list. Didn't they run most of the race on intermediates in pouring rain because they couldn't get any wet tires or something.

It had something to do with the fact that Dealer Team Vauxhall had a contract with a certain tyre company, in which they either didn't have any wet tyres, or their wets were not very efficient.

Their primary rivals in the class were a horde of Alfetta GTV's, who had used a different brand of tyre, which was much superior.

DTV were reluctent to change to the good tyres, which were offered to them, due to their tyre contract, but after alot of wheeling and dealing the DTV Magnum changed tyre brands and Brock and Marshall wound up second outright and first in class.

There are many holes in that, i'll have to go and have a proper look, but hopefully someone has a better knowledge of it all

The favour of Brock driving the DTV Magnum at Spa (he was invited to race with them again in England later that year wasn't he?) was returned when Gerry came out to Bathurst later that year to partner South African Basil Van Rooyan as part of the 3-car Brock/Bill Patterson Racing assault.


I can see a case for Grice and Moffat making it in there, but i can also see why not.

Grice's international career lasted effectively 1986 until 1989 in Touring Cars, with 1986 and 1988 only being dedicated assaults on the ETCC. In 1987 his teamed an ATCC assault with racing NASCAR in the Coca Cola World 600 at Charlotte, and an outing in a factory BMW M3 at Spa in the 24 Hours partnering Roberto Moreno and Willy Siller. In 1989 he raced sporadically in, among other places, Australia, the USA and Japan.

As for Moffat, his only oversea's foray's with Touring Cars were in 1986 with Brock, 1987 with the Rothmans VL, plus outings at the Fuji 500 in Japan in 1989 with Klaus Neidzweidz in the Eggenberger Sierra. He did win Macau one year in his Group 2 Capri RS3100, but in Australia that was used as a Sports Sedan. He may have taken the Mazda to Macau one year as well from memory?

Any of his previous exploits had been in Trans-Am in America and Sportscars, like his runs in the Le Mans 24 Hours. He took his Group C Mazda RX7 to Daytona for the 24 Hours in 1985, but that is classed as a Sportscar race, not a Touring Car race

[racer69]

Quick correction time - Moffat won at Macau in 1973 in a Team Harper Ford Capri RS2600, not his RS3100 he used to win the Australian Sports Sedan Championship in 1976

[cavvy]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

1977 Kings Cup at Spa 24hr (3rd outright), Porsche 956, BMW CSL, MHDT to Europe in 1986 & 1987, Nissan Mobil series in NZ plus the local racing... in Commodores, Sierras, BMW, Monaro, Volvo & Vauxhall SuperTourers... sports sedans etc etc

PB belongs in the list...

I agree wholeheartedly for the international results above plus here in Aus

Shame Frank Gardner raced tintops so rarely back here.

[cavvy]

Originally Posted by racer69

As for Moffat, his only oversea's foray's with Touring Cars were in 1986 with Brock, 1987 with the Rothmans VL, plus outings at the Fuji 500 in Japan in 1989 with Klaus Neidzweidz in the Eggenberger Sierra. He did win Macau one year in his Group 2 Capri RS3100, but in Australia that was used as a Sports Sedan. He may have taken the Mazda to Macau one year as well from memory?

Any of his previous exploits had been in Trans-Am in America and Sportscars, like his runs in the Le Mans 24 Hours. He took his Group C Mazda RX7 to Daytona for the 24 Hours in 1985, but that is classed as a Sportscar race, not a Touring Car race

Didnt Moff win in the US in a batmobile BMW with Sam Posey? Trans Am Lotus Cortinas are certainly touring cars.

[A9X05]

Originally Posted by Crowestar

What about 1976? Who won that race now?

Yeah thats another story isnt it? I wasnt sure if I should bring that one up ?? If the storys true Bondy / Harves missed that one too !

[Nivola]

cavvy moff took over Ronnie Petersons seat in the IMSA Batmobile after his death I think it was a 24 hour race Daytona or sebring 12. They didnt have time to put his name on the side of the car.

[buza]

my top 20 ever
in no order
Peter Brock
Alan Menu
John Cleland
Jim Richards
Bernd Schneider
Rickard Rydell
Paul Radisich
Craig Lowndes
Greg Murphy
Yvan Muller
Jason Plato
Andy Priaulx
“Smoking” Jo Wincolhok
Frank Bella
Will Hoy
Larry Perkins
Alan Grice
Win Percy
Mark Skaife
James Thompson

[mitchie]

Originally Posted by buza

my top 20 ever
in no order
Peter Brock
Alan Menu
John Cleland
Jim Richards
Bernd Schneider
Rickard Rydell
Paul Radisich
Craig Lowndes
Greg Murphy
Yvan Muller
Jason Plato
Andy Priaulx
“Smoking” Jo Wincolhok
Frank Bella
Will Hoy
Larry Perkins
Alan Grice
Win Percy
Mark Skaife
James Thompson

With no background on what kind of racing you have seen, or what series you have followed (only knowing that you are from Australia), you've illustrated the point I was going to make. These lists are always very dependant on where they are made from.

A European created list will generally place more importance on drivers they encounter everyday and can easily compare the achievements between. Conversely, an Australian created list could/would tend to look upon the local talent alot more favourably. Each to their own (market)

Personally, I think the one done by Motorsport is pretty spot on

[buza]

your spot on but it was just done on drivers i've seen
and been a aussie it of course will have more
drivers that have driven in australia
mainly in the v8's

[105octane]

Or Murph???

[Wrighty05]

Originally Posted by buza

my top 20 ever
in no order
Peter Brock
Alan Menu
John Cleland
Jim Richards
Bernd Schneider
Rickard Rydell
Paul Radisich
Craig Lowndes
Greg Murphy
Yvan Muller
Jason Plato
Andy Priaulx
“Smoking” Jo Wincolhok
Frank Bella
Will Hoy
Larry Perkins
Alan Grice
Win Percy
Mark Skaife
James Thompson

Not knocking your list at all, but it's interesting that the #1 Steve Soper isn't there.

As someone above stated, it really goes on what races the judges have seen.

[stoned pony]

Two Australians in the list? I'm pretty sure I saw Brian "Yogi" Muir there...

Its a pretty big call to say 25% of the world's best tin top drivers are Australian, and 15% are Kiwis!!!!!!!

[Gaz170]

I'd have thought Moff and/or Gricey would have been there somewhere. I'm surprised Steve Soper rated #1, and also surprised a European mag rated Brock #2!
Couple of names there I don't know, but then I can't say I've seen all the European racing so I can't comment on whether they should have been there or not.
It'd be interesting to see who would have made the next 20 or 30 names on the list.

[buza]

if your all having a go at mine try your own top 20 list then

[racer69]

One man who i thought would have been much higher was Roberto Ravaglia.

6 championships in 6 years obviously wasn't good enough for any better than 7th place, and considering that his 1986 and 1988 European Title's, along with his 1987 World Championship win and the 1989 DTM title, were at that time THE best Touring Car championships in the world, and apart from his win in the 'parity driven' DTM of 1989, he won the other title's in what were basically inferior cars.

Was still competitive until his too early retirement at the end of 1997 at the age of only 41.

[rdmdog]

What about Graeme Crosby? Bikes and Cars!!

[racer69]

Crosby was impressive in the Commodore in 1986, but apart from the first 2 rounds in 1987, didn't enter another ATCC round again. Ran at Bathurst and the Nissan-Mobil Series races for a while, but for whatever reason he never followed up on that promise-filled first year. Not enough car racing to have a chance.

He was a natural on the Racecam too, at Lakeside in 1986 he was sliding around on his well worn tyres (about 10 laps into the race!), chatting on the Racecam to Raymond, Crompton and Wilkinson with everyone behind lining up for their turn to pass him......

[Senna05]

The same magazine judged Peter Brock 11th or 12th in the greatest Motorsports Driver of ALL TIME (Not just Tin Top) back in 2001.

I'm guessing the judges/writers have a good sound knowledge base of world motorsports, as they have included alot of outside of Brit stuff in past lists.

I'm a child of the 90's, but I feel that Moff, one of the Geoghans, and possibly DJ should have got a mention in there, but appart from that, the list is pretty good.

[Wrighty05]

Originally Posted by rdmdog

What about Graeme Crosby? Bikes and Cars!!

Bikes would not come into it, only his touring car form would.

[Mattracer]

Well seeing as V8Suoercar is considered one of the toughest if not the toughest touring car category at the moment, then the stars of the last few years shoud be in there- Ambrose, Skaife, Lowndes

[Mattracer]

Perhaps also add John Bowe- been around for an awfully long time (sorry John), won a lot of races, one ATCC and two Bathursts!

[racer69]

Ambrose and Lowndes are only newcomers to the whole thing though, most of the guys on the list earned their spots through decades of hard competition, that pair haven't even been around a decade.

Skaife and Bowe are aknowledged good drivers, but their international touring car exploits against the best in the world amount to the 1987 James Hardie, a few Wellington 500/Nissan-Mobil Series plus an occasional overseas jaunt (Skaife to Monza and Macau, Bowe to Silverstone)

Nowhere near enough to make the list, considering it is a European publication.

[MHDT]

Originally Posted by Senna05

The same magazine judged Peter Brock 11th or 12th in the greatest Motorsports Driver of ALL TIME (Not just Tin Top) back in 2001.

PB ranked 14th in Autosport's 2002 "The 20 Most Exciting Drivers - Ever" listing. Right up there with Fangio, Senna, and Moss.

[pete55]

When Dick Johnson took the Sierra over to England to run it he was blitzing them until he had to retire. I think he should have been on the list.