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Old 13 Oct 2014, 23:38 (Ref:3464727)   #1
Terry S
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Touring Car Masters

After watching the Touring Car Masters races from Bathurst I Was interested in finding out what cars were eligible. I noted a Chev Monza 2 plus 2 and a Ford Escort, but no Torana XU 1's
Also the commentators mentioned they were going much faster than in their day so I wondered what the technical regulations were.
I looked on the Touring Car Masters website but nothing.
Looked on CAMS websites for both current and historic racing but nothing

So where are the eligible cars list and technical regulations to be found?

I have raised on this forum as the Historic Racing Today forum doesn't seem relevant (and it seems only about UK)

Please can someone help?
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Old 14 Oct 2014, 01:54 (Ref:3464774)   #2
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I can't give you a direct link - however, if you google "touring car masters regulations" that takes you to a pdf of the 2014 TCM regs.

Apparently the XU-1 is not on the eligibilty list; but other vehicles may be added to the list provided requirements are met and approval is given.
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Old 14 Oct 2014, 02:13 (Ref:3464778)   #3
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And you will see that they are not an historic category...... thats why the AMC Javelin was allowed to run with a Dodge Nascar engine
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Old 14 Oct 2014, 02:19 (Ref:3464781)   #4
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TCM is retro rather than historic.Great class though.
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Old 14 Oct 2014, 03:46 (Ref:3464796)   #5
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Originally Posted by RedZedMikey View Post
I can't give you a direct link - however, if you google "touring car masters regulations" that takes you to a pdf of the 2014 TCM regs.

Apparently the XU-1 is not on the eligibilty list; but other vehicles may be added to the list provided requirements are met and approval is given.
Thanks very much for that, appreciated.
Strange that the XU-1 is not on the eligibility list when their website says they are "evoking the glory days of Australian touring car racing".
Especially when Javelin and Chev Monza are included.

Also Escort is not on list but was racing on the weekend
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Old 14 Oct 2014, 03:55 (Ref:3464798)   #6
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I dare say the XU-1's would be outgunned, but it would be interesting to see whether they could be competitive at somewhere like Winton
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Old 14 Oct 2014, 05:26 (Ref:3464822)   #7
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the Stillwell Escort used to get right amongst the big cars on the tight tracks when it was running in TCM a few years back.
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Old 14 Oct 2014, 07:32 (Ref:3464860)   #8
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XU-1s have competed in the series previously, but they were so outgunned they gave up.
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Old 15 Oct 2014, 00:33 (Ref:3465141)   #9
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292 Chev 6 powered XU1's with a t10 & borg warner should be allowed. That would fix the situation! Or even allow the holden 6 with a JZed head conversion...
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Old 15 Oct 2014, 02:52 (Ref:3465160)   #10
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292 Chev 6 powered XU1's with a t10 & borg warner should be allowed. That would fix the situation! Or even allow the holden 6 with a JZed head conversion...
At least a V8 XU1 has raced at Bathurst. It was the prototype for the XU2 and run by Firths HDT. It was an Easter Bathurst meeting, I think about 1972

That's mote than can be said for Charger V8's and Javelins.
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Old 17 Oct 2014, 10:05 (Ref:3465888)   #11
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At least a V8 XU1 has raced at Bathurst. It was the prototype for the XU2 and run by Firths HDT. It was an Easter Bathurst meeting, I think about 1972

That's mote than can be said for Charger V8's and Javelins.
The V8 LJ Torana was never produced as a production car, the Charger V8 was as was the Javelin in TransAm.
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Old 22 Oct 2014, 23:08 (Ref:3467493)   #12
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I thought the V8 Charger didn't race in period?
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Old 22 Oct 2014, 23:45 (Ref:3467497)   #13
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At least a V8 XU1 has raced at Bathurst. It was the prototype for the XU2 and run by Firths HDT. It was an Easter Bathurst meeting, I think about 1972

That's mote than can be said for Charger V8's and Javelins.
The GTR XU-1 V8 (not XU-2) was never raced. It never got past the prototype stage (tech speak for 'we've been driving it on the street for 6 months'). HDT did build a Super Sports Torana V8 (The Beast), but in production car racing they only raced the LC/LJ as a GTR then GTR XU-1.

A V8 Charger was also never raced. The E55 (340 V8) was only released as an auto with a single exhaust, without the track pack options. It was slower than the E38/49. The E55 was sold as a luxury tourer, not a sports car. The E55 manual which Greg Crick is racing was the "supercar" that was killed off.
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Old 23 Oct 2014, 02:26 (Ref:3467525)   #14
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As II noted in post #5 their website (and the CAMS website) says their aim is to be (evoking the glory days of Austraiian Touring Car Racing".

How can they do this if they use cars never raced in Australia at the time?

Just because a car raced somewhere in the world pre 1976 I don't think it really meets their aim!

Next they will be allowing Tatras and DKW's. And if they are not competitive they will allow fitting of a big V8........

I note on their eligible cars list is the Perana Capri V8. How many of those raced in Australia.
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Old 23 Oct 2014, 02:38 (Ref:3467527)   #15
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Jim Richards AMC Javelin wasn't raced here either, but it was good to see it in the series.
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Old 23 Oct 2014, 09:17 (Ref:3467573)   #16
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Considering they run huge brakes compared to the original one's fitted no wonder they lap quicker than 30 years ago, plus 30 years of engine, suspension and tyre development wouldn't hurt either.
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Old 23 Oct 2014, 09:39 (Ref:3467578)   #17
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Originally Posted by Terry S View Post
As II noted in post #5 their website (and the CAMS website) says their aim is to be (evoking the glory days of Austraiian Touring Car Racing".

How can they do this if they use cars never raced in Australia at the time?

Just because a car raced somewhere in the world pre 1976 I don't think it really meets their aim!

Next they will be allowing Tatras and DKW's. And if they are not competitive they will allow fitting of a big V8........

I note on their eligible cars list is the Perana Capri V8. How many of those raced in Australia.
To be fair, there are cars that have raced in Group Nb (Appendix J) over the years that never raced in Australia in period either.
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Old 23 Oct 2014, 12:52 (Ref:3467626)   #18
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To be fair, there are cars that have raced in Group Nb (Appendix J) over the years that never raced in Australia in period either.
Iso Griffin springs to mind.
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Old 23 Oct 2014, 21:37 (Ref:3467734)   #19
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Originally Posted by m00neelee View Post
The GTR XU-1 V8 (not XU-2) was never raced. It never got past the prototype stage (tech speak for 'we've been driving it on the street for 6 months'). HDT did build a Super Sports Torana V8 (The Beast), but in production car racing they only raced the LC/LJ as a GTR then GTR XU-1.

A V8 Charger was also never raced. The E55 (340 V8) was only released as an auto with a single exhaust, without the track pack options. It was slower than the E38/49. The E55 was sold as a luxury tourer, not a sports car. The E55 manual which Greg Crick is racing was the "supercar" that was killed off.
A V8 XU-1 prototype was raced by HDT at Bathurst in 1972 at the ATCC Easter meeting. It competed in Sports Sedans with Colin Bond driving and apparently Improved Production too. The car was number '134' and had a stock 308 V8 and was used for evaluation of how a XU-1 V8 would go at the mountain in October. It's identified by the huge front spoiler and rear wing. There's plenty of info on the car including Firths book 'Holden and I'.
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Old 23 Oct 2014, 23:14 (Ref:3467761)   #20
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A V8 XU-1 prototype was raced by HDT at Bathurst in 1972 at the ATCC Easter meeting. It competed in Sports Sedans with Colin Bond driving and apparently Improved Production too. The car was number '134' and had a stock 308 V8 and was used for evaluation of how a XU-1 V8 would go at the mountain in October. It's identified by the huge front spoiler and rear wing. There's plenty of info on the car including Firths book 'Holden and I'.
A V8 Torana (LC GTR) was raced by Bond in Super Sports, but to call it an XU-1 V8 prototype is not correct. This car was the first iteration of "The Beast". The differences between the super sports car and the production car used that weekend were major (thanks Autopics).
http://autopics.com.au/72090-colin-b...t-easter-1972/
http://autopics.com.au/72054-colin-b...t-easter-1972/
I have no doubt that this iteration of "The Beast" was a test mule. But as I said, a GTR XU-1 V8 was never raced, and never raced as a Production Car.
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Old 23 Oct 2014, 23:27 (Ref:3467763)   #21
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Originally Posted by m00neelee View Post
A V8 Torana (LC GTR) was raced by Bond in Super Sports, but to call it an XU-1 V8 prototype is not correct. This car was the first iteration of "The Beast". The differences between the super sports car and the production car used that weekend were major (thanks Autopics).
http://autopics.com.au/72090-colin-b...t-easter-1972/
http://autopics.com.au/72054-colin-b...t-easter-1972/
I have no doubt that this iteration of "The Beast" was a test mule. But as I said, a GTR XU-1 V8 was never raced, and never raced as a Production Car.
You are correct, it wasn't an XU-1 prototype, it was an XU-2 prototype. And it was not the first iteration of the Beast.

The full story was in Australian Muscle Car some time ago, including extensive input from Harry Firth. The car was a victim of the Siper car scare.
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Old 24 Oct 2014, 03:54 (Ref:3467809)   #22
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You are correct, it wasn't an XU-1 prototype, it was an XU-2 prototype. And it was not the first iteration of the Beast.

The full story was in Australian Muscle Car some time ago, including extensive input from Harry Firth. The car was a victim of the Siper car scare.
Terry, you are correct about the beast. I forgot about the rally cross cars.

The XU-2 "prototype" though was never an LJ V8.

The only time Holden ever used XU-2 was on an LH styling exercise:

http://oldholden.com/node/110520
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Old 24 Oct 2014, 10:25 (Ref:3467900)   #23
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Jim Richards AMC Javelin wasn't raced here either, but it was good to see it in the series.
This series don't necessarily run on the same rules as other historic series...they broke away from the mainstream for just that reason...
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Old 24 Oct 2014, 19:49 (Ref:3468044)   #24
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This series don't necessarily run on the same rules as other historic series...they broke away from the mainstream for just that reason...
It was a good idea to break away too I think.
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Old 24 Oct 2014, 22:01 (Ref:3468081)   #25
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It was a good idea to break away too I think.
agreed. ,much more enjoyable now.

Before it was nostalgic championship which was entertaining for having some old school cars running on the track.

Now its a race series and we are getting longer races

the downside is that we have lost a lot of the ability to watch minis compete with Ford GTHOs. because the flaws in the GTHO have been fixed (and we are not destrying expensive bits of nostalgia either
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