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Old 5 Aug 2020, 11:53 (Ref:3993108)   #51
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Originally Posted by RS67 View Post
The car performance must have fell off a cliff compared to what Jordan did the previous season then.

He had qualified near the front several times yet only got 2 podiums out of the whole season so yes he did have a lacklustre season, first or not. So perfectly worth pointing out.

And how many wins did his team mate get then? And let’s not forget Sutton lost one win on a technicality. And I’m sorry, but it’s laughable that you think a first season has nothing to do with it. It was a very promising season from him, not a lacklustre one.
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Old 5 Aug 2020, 12:12 (Ref:3993112)   #52
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Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
And how many wins did his team mate get then? And let’s not forget Sutton lost one win on a technicality. And I’m sorry, but it’s laughable that you think a first season has nothing to do with it. It was a very promising season from him, not a lacklustre one.
I agree.

For comparison of first (proper) seasons:

Turkington - 14th. 2 Places behind his teammate.
Shedden - 4th. 3 Places behind his teammate.
Jordan - 13th. 1 Place ahead of teammate.
Sutton - 13th. 1 Place behind teammate.
Cammish - 10th. 1 Place behind teammate.

IMO, Sutton's first season was on a par with recent championship contenders, and whilst not setting the world alight, was definitely not lacklustre.
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Old 5 Aug 2020, 12:16 (Ref:3993113)   #53
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
I agree.

For comparison of first (proper) seasons:

Turkington - 14th. 2 Places behind his teammate.
Not really fair to use 2002 as Turkington's first season as he and Gareth Howell missed the first round as the cars weren't ready in time.
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Old 5 Aug 2020, 12:23 (Ref:3993116)   #54
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Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
it is no pure breed race horse like the WSR 3 series.
That's an interesting view. I'm not saying I disagree per se, but what is it about the Q50 compared to the 3-Series that makes it 'not a pure breed'?
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Old 5 Aug 2020, 12:27 (Ref:3993118)   #55
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Originally Posted by thetool View Post
Not really fair to use 2002 as Turkington's first season as he and Gareth Howell missed the first round as the cars weren't ready in time.
If that's unfair as a comparison (although I don't see why), then the following season he was 8th, behind teammates in 6th and 7th. That still doesn't change much about the 'quality' of Sutton's first season.
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Old 5 Aug 2020, 12:39 (Ref:3993122)   #56
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
That's an interesting view. I'm not saying I disagree per se, but what is it about the Q50 compared to the 3-Series that makes it 'not a pure breed'?
How many cars have Laser Tools built from scratch before?
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Old 5 Aug 2020, 12:46 (Ref:3993126)   #57
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Originally Posted by MagicBoy View Post
How many cars have Laser Tools built from scratch before?
Laser Tools didn't build the Q50. Although just because it is the first car a team builds, or the tenth, does that mean it has a different legitimacy?

The car was designed and built by BMR (the same team that built the Levorg), with a nucleus of engineers from the former 888. They were supported by Hexathron in the development.
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Old 5 Aug 2020, 13:05 (Ref:3993128)   #58
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
Laser Tools didn't build the Q50. Although just because it is the first car a team builds, or the tenth, does that mean it has a different legitimacy?

The car was designed and built by BMR (the same team that built the Levorg), with a nucleus of engineers from the former 888. They were supported by Hexathron in the development.
Was it, I was under the impression the cars were built by Willy Poole which was why Motorbase had to look elsewhere for someone to build the Fords.
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Old 5 Aug 2020, 13:33 (Ref:3993133)   #59
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
That's an interesting view. I'm not saying I disagree per se, but what is it about the Q50 compared to the 3-Series that makes it 'not a pure breed'?
Again, in my simple terms:

The WSR car looks balanced, poised, calm, under control and is very quick with it. This with Turks, Oliphant and Jordan at the wheel. It looks like a car an amateur like myself could lap relatively quickly without huge chance of disturbing the scenery.

The Infiniti in Ash's hands looked every inch a wild untamed colt ready to throw it's rider at any time. I suspect the average Joe like me would at the very least end up in the kitty litter as well as being massively slower than Ash, not to mention Aidan. Whether the car can be fettled, tamed and carry speed remains to be seen over the coming months. If it is the same BMR boys working on its development as did the Subaru then I'm somehow doubting this - as the Subaru was pretty awful except in Ash's hands. (Excepting it's first season before the rule changes to pair it back). We know BMR was short of cash, and that may have been a major factor in the car never coming on any further. Or it may have been engineering skill. Or the base car. All of these. I don't know!

What I would like is to see Colin and Ash in the same car. Probably never happen. I always wanted Senna and Mansell in the same car too, that would have been one hell of a pairing.
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Old 5 Aug 2020, 13:39 (Ref:3993135)   #60
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Originally Posted by RS67 View Post
Was it, I was under the impression the cars were built by Willy Poole which was why Motorbase had to look elsewhere for someone to build the Fords.
Yes - Willie Poole was involved with the fabrication of the car.

Going back to Moffat Sr's quote (who I'm sure knows who built the cars) "We've used some of their [BMR] engineering staff for the build and development of the car, we're quite happy to support BMR Engineering, and their members are working on Ash's car".
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Old 5 Aug 2020, 13:45 (Ref:3993139)   #61
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Originally Posted by Alfisti View Post
Again, in my simple terms:

The WSR car looks balanced, poised, calm, under control and is very quick with it. This with Turks, Oliphant and Jordan at the wheel. It looks like a car an amateur like myself could lap relatively quickly without huge chance of disturbing the scenery.

The Infiniti in Ash's hands looked every inch a wild untamed colt ready to throw it's rider at any time. I suspect the average Joe like me would at the very least end up in the kitty litter as well as being massively slower than Ash, not to mention Aidan. Whether the car can be fettled, tamed and carry speed remains to be seen over the coming months. If it is the same BMR boys working on its development as did the Subaru then I'm somehow doubting this - as the Subaru was pretty awful except in Ash's hands. (Excepting it's first season before the rule changes to pair it back). We know BMR was short of cash, and that may have been a major factor in the car never coming on any further. Or it may have been engineering skill. Or the base car. All of these. I don't know!

What I would like is to see Colin and Ash in the same car. Probably never happen. I always wanted Senna and Mansell in the same car too, that would have been one hell of a pairing.
Understood - cheers.
I'm hopeful that the Q50 demonstrates its pedigree over the course of the season, but I wonder how much of the attitude of the car is down to driver preference? Turkington has always been held up as an example of a 'smooth' touring car driver, whereas Sutton seems to be more 'erratic' (in a controlled way).

One thing is certain, we're already seeing fairly lengthy discussions over the merits of the Sutton/Q50 pairing, and I expect them to continue season long.

There seem to be a scale:
The car is too good and needs to be pegged back.
The driver is getting the best out of a poor car.
The driver is bending the rules too far.

I guess it makes a change from RWD/FWD discussion - or that the Honda's are too dominant?
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Old 5 Aug 2020, 14:00 (Ref:3993147)   #62
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
Laser Tools didn't build the Q50. Although just because it is the first car a team builds, or the tenth, does that mean it has a different legitimacy?

The car was designed and built by BMR (the same team that built the Levorg), with a nucleus of engineers from the former 888. They were supported by Hexathron in the development.
That was my point. Laser Tools had the 2020 car designed and built - they are new builds for this season. Yes, they had some help and farmed the fabrication out to Willie Poole...
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Old 5 Aug 2020, 14:16 (Ref:3993150)   #63
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I know I'm partly guilty of posting in this thread, but... can we keep this one specifically for Brands Hatch and move the general Sutton/Moffat/Infiniti discussions over to the season thread?

5 pages already and the meeting hasn't happened yet!
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Old 5 Aug 2020, 16:28 (Ref:3993170)   #64
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I know I'm partly guilty of posting in this thread, but... can we keep this one specifically for Brands Hatch and move the general Sutton/Moffat/Infiniti discussions over to the season thread?

5 pages already and the meeting hasn't happened yet!
👆🏼
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Old 6 Aug 2020, 10:57 (Ref:3993302)   #65
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medius should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridmedius should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
So my prediction,safety cars for:

Race 1 car beached at Clearways: Team HARD.
Race 2 car beached at Paddock Hill Bend: Team HARD.
Race 3 car beached at Druids: Team HARD.
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Old 6 Aug 2020, 11:26 (Ref:3993307)   #66
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So my prediction,safety cars for:

Race 1 car beached at Clearways: Team HARD.
Race 2 car beached at Paddock Hill Bend: Team HARD.
Race 3 car beached at Druids: Team HARD.
I had a bet with a mate of mine before Race 3 on what lap the safety car would be needed, and whereabouts on track the Passat would be. We both lost...
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Old 6 Aug 2020, 11:49 (Ref:3993316)   #67
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So my prediction,safety cars for:

Race 1 car beached at Clearways: Team HARD.
Race 2 car beached at Paddock Hill Bend: Team HARD.
Race 3 car beached at Druids: Team HARD.
Don't forget it's on the GP circuit this time. Would you like to swap one of those for 'car off at Westfield'?
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Old 6 Aug 2020, 15:32 (Ref:3993357)   #68
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Don't forget it's on the GP circuit this time. Would you like to swap one of those for 'car off at Westfield'?
I'll take that bet!
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Old 6 Aug 2020, 16:01 (Ref:3993362)   #69
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Don't forget it's on the GP circuit this time. Would you like to swap one of those for 'car off at Westfield'?
Can I also add Druids as an option?

Isn't there live snatch at Westfield (as at Paddock Hill)?
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Old 6 Aug 2020, 17:16 (Ref:3993373)   #70
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Isn't there live snatch at Westfield (as at Paddock Hill)?
Depend how hard you hit the tyre wall
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Old 6 Aug 2020, 17:59 (Ref:3993383)   #71
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Old 6 Aug 2020, 18:09 (Ref:3993385)   #72
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Read in today’s Autosport that WSR are looking to have a third driver hopefully for Thruxton next month and they’ve spoken to a few drivers. Hope the can put that empty seat to good use
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Old 6 Aug 2020, 20:01 (Ref:3993407)   #73
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That's interesting! I bet it's £££ that matters most but hopefully they can still get some valuable addition to the squad. In ideal world it'd be a young star of the future
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Old 6 Aug 2020, 20:24 (Ref:3993412)   #74
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In ideal world it'd be a young star of the future
or just old Collard returning
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Old 7 Aug 2020, 05:10 (Ref:3993451)   #75
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or just old Collard returning
Or as ATS said he was hoping to do some BTCC this year and has RWD experience from his last few years of GT racing.
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